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Is chelated iron in CSM+B good?

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by tiger15, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. tiger15

    tiger15 Member

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    Plantex CSM+B contains 55% EDTA. Is EDTA the chelating agent for iron and other metals. I read that EDTA is only stable below pH 6.5. If so, how good is it?
     
  2. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    EDTA is the chelating agent in csmb.

    6.5 is the PH threshold where EDTA begins to detach from Fe only. To the other micros, it stays bound at much higher PHs.

    How good is it? if your PH never gets much above 6.5 its pretty good. If you PH is higher than 6.5, you will most likely need an additional source of Fe (depending on your set-up obviously, low-tech vs high tech, etc)

    A good additional source would be DTPA chelated Fe, which stays bound up into the high 7s, or Fe gluconate, which isnt much of a chelate so it doesnt stick around as long, but it is more easily available to plants than chelated forms.
     
  3. tiger15

    tiger15 Member

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    My water pH is consistently above 6.5, so I have decided to forego buying cMS+B and stay with Flourish. I also placed an order for DTPA iron. Iron is the most important trace, and if EDTA iron is no good for my water, CMS+B is no good for me.

    Just curious why EDTA is only unstable with iron but not with other metals at pH above 6.5. And if a chelaging agent is holding onto the metals, how can plant absorb the metals. Many water conditioner contains EDTA and claimed to remove heavy metals, so is it contradictory to need a chelating agent to make metals available to plants? Also, is it advisable to dose water conditioner and trace minerals at the same time in water change.
     
    #3 tiger15, Aug 18, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
  4. Julia Adkins

    Julia Adkins aquariumfertilizer.com
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    There is such a small amount of iron in the Nutritrace CSM and to forgo using the CSM entirely simply because of the iron does not make sense as you then eliminate all the other micro nutrients are not all that available and are a pain to add individually. If you have many red leafed plants you could add the iron as iron chelated with DTPA or Ferrous gluconate, both of which we carry at www.aquariumfertilizer.com.
     
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  5. Julia Adkins

    Julia Adkins aquariumfertilizer.com
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    The other thing you can do is to add a very small amount of vinegar to the solution which will reduce the pH and make the iron more bioavailable.
     
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  6. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    Green plants need iron as much as "red-leaved plants"
     
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  7. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
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    IME, use csm+b and dtpa to get the best of both
     
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  8. Dale Hazey

    Dale Hazey Junior Poster

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    How much vinegar should I add to 250mL of hot tap water before adding Plantex CSM+b?

    Thanks
    Dale
     
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  9. Dale Hazey

    Dale Hazey Junior Poster

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    I have been using 250mL distilled water with 1 teaspoon Plantex CSM+B right now.

    25mL dose for a 40gallon 1-2x week
    10mL dose for a 29gallon 1-2x week

    These doses are achieving .1 ppm FE

    My KH is rather high so not sure if it really matters if I use the hot water and vinegar or distilled
     
  10. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
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    Dry dose using EI Method, simple
     
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  11. Julia Adkins

    Julia Adkins aquariumfertilizer.com
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    Green plants only need a trace amount of iron. The red leafed plants need slightly more as this is what contributes to their red color. When red leafed plants get a little more iron, the color pops out bright and shiny.
     
  12. Stan510

    Stan510 Member

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    Actually,Iron is turning out to be the most important trace need for aquarium plants. The others area all minor elements from what I've seen. What you have in tap water and water changes seems enough. But iron? It drives plants wild. I've seen people who only use Flourish and poo-poo the small amount of iron in it as all they need. So then why are their Sword plants not a deep green? Or large?
    I think the gluconate not only gets plants to absorb iron best..its opening them up to the other trace elements already in the water.
     
  13. Stan510

    Stan510 Member

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    Aquatic plants are not like terrestrial. They are foliar feeders..not so much substrate..but some of course get the rainy season silts as a pick me up. But,I would say most of the year its all in the water column. Iron seems to be vital.
    As I see it? What you put in the substrate isn't so much directly feeding the plants..its what leaches into the aquarium (Starting strongly close to the rootball) water that's the boost. When the leaching is done- where are you? You have to feed the water. Soils are for more root anchorage..and there the roots can also feed on aquarium water moving down into the gravel.

    Its how aquaponics exist with no soils whatsovers,just sometimes un dirted gravel to root in. But don't dose their water? Watch everything die.
     
    #13 Stan510, Jan 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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