Iron Chelate and Ferrous Gluconate dosing

[bsmith782]

Currently I am dosing EI with csm+b Flourish and Flourish FE. I came up on a deal on some Ferrous Gluconate and Fe chelate.

I read on here that I can mix 1/2 tsp csm+b with 1/2tsp gluconate in 500ml to make a good trace supplement.

How should I add the Fe chalate to this mix?

 

[Tug]

I keep Ferrous Gluconate separate and dose daily, but thats me.

Do you have the link to the OP. The recommended mix as I know it is CMS+B, Fe Gluconate and DTPA Fe at 4:1:1 ratio by volume. Do you know what Fe chelate you have?

 

[bsmith782]

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/7340-How-much-iron-to-dose?highlight=ferrous

 

[Tug]

Measure twice, cut once.

You need to look at that again.

I'd mix about 1 tablespoon of CMS+B and a tsp of Fe Gluconate in1 liter, dose 15mls 3x a week.
Plenty of traces for a 55.

What are you trying to do?

 

[bsmith782]

Good call. I am going to be aquiring some of the gluconate and Fe chelate soon and just want to know the best way to dose them. Since the above post from this site was about all I found on using the gluconate in a solution I was hoping that either I could incorporate the chelate into a micro mix or just get instructions on dosing it either in a solution of it's own or dry.

 

[Tug]

If you add (3 teaspoons of CSM+B + 1 teaspoon of Fe Gluconate + 1 teaspoon of Fe Chelate?) to 500mL of distilled water, a 5mL dose into a 30 gallon tank will give you between 0.1 and 0.2ppm of iron (depending on what Fe chelate you have) and plenty of trace.

 

[Tug]

Add HCL or Excel to prevent fungus, etc. :gw

 

[bsmith782]

So that mix would be dosed on alternating days from Macro's?

How much Excel per 500ml of solution?

 

[Tom Barr]

CMS and FG is fine for soft water...........low KH's etc.......

Otherwise..........go with DTPA Fe and CMS.

Or.......go with all 3 for the multi chelator approach.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[bsmith782]

I am getting the FG and Fe chelate from Craig T over at TPT. He said he got the mix from you Tom.

 

[Tug]

Telling us you have Fe chelate is not being very specific. There are other Fe chelates out there and it would be a good idea to know what you have, exactly. Knowing if you have high alkalinity (KH) would help determine what Fe chelate would be more effective in your tank. They can all be used effectively in water with low KH.

 

[Tug]

So that mix would be dosed on alternating days from Macro's?

The stock solution I suggested was on the low side, but it is probably close to what you are dosing with Flourish. If you have nonlimiting levels of CO2, dose KNO3 and KH2PO4, have a lot of plants and high light, you could dose 10mL to bring the dose in line with EI. In ether case the dose would be three times a week, "alternating days".

Another option might be to drop the FG (Ferrous Gluconate) out of the stock solution. Make a separate solution like Seachem's Iron supplement for daily dosing and dose trace 3 times a week. It depends on how hard your water is, what your goals are and some of that other stuff like plant density.

How much Excel per 500ml of solution?

About 25 mls per liter, so...

 

[bsmith782]

Since im getting it from another member of a forum all I can do is trust what he tells me and so far all I can get from him is that it is Fe chelate. I will try to see if he knows what the chealtor is.

The tanks I have are soft water tanks that I use RO/DI water for changes. Then I add gh booster directly to the tank after the weekly water change.

 

[bsmith782]

EDTA is what the chelator is.

 

[Tug]

1st Some Questions:

1. Is this the 30 gallon tank?
2. Fish?
3. Plant density?
4. Lighting?
5. CO2?
6. How much, how often and what are you dosing now, NPK, trace, etc. ?
7. Are you happy with your current dosing routine?
8. Do you add anything else to your RO/DI water other then GH booster?

Fe EDTA is what is in plantex CSM+B. You could use it to boost the levels of iron in your trace. Dose trace three times a week and dose the FG daily from a separate stock solution or add them all at once from one formula. It's up to you how you want to skin that cat.

 

[bsmith782]

1. Is this the 30 gallon tank?
2. Fish?
3. Plant density?
4. Lighting?
5. CO2?
6. How much, how often and what are you dosing now, NPK, trace, etc. ?
7. Are you happy with your current dosing routine?
8. Do you add anything else to your RO/DI water other then GH booster?

Fe EDTA is what is in plantex CSM+B. You could use it to boost the levels of iron in your trace. Dose trace three times a week and dose the FG daily from a separate stock solution or add them all at once from one formula. It's up to you how you want to skin that cat.

1.The tanks I would be using it on would be a 37g and an ada 60-pp (17g)
2.there are 3 discus in the 37 and 10 cardinal tetras 3 otos, 60-p 13 neons and 10 harlequin rasboras
3.both tanks are densly planted
4. 4x24w catalina t5ho on the 37g, 3x24w catalina t5ho on the 60-p
5.pressurized co2 on both
6.Im dosing a slightly modified EI on the 37g and am dosing micros and phosphate on the 60-p (nitrates are still high in the 30ppm range on th 60-p due to substate disturbance and root tabes releasing nitrate)
7.The routine I have im happy with im growing L.Pantanal Synognanthus madiera in the 37g with great results, in the 60-p I have a foreground of thrithuria sp. and a few other more sifficult stems that are growing great.
8. I dont add the gh booster to the water per se I just add it to the tank directly after water changes.

Whan I purchased the gh booster I was talking to rex since I noticed that there was a good amount of potassium in the mix. I though that since it was in there already there would be no need to dose it on Macro days and Rex assured me that I was indeed correct.

I have no issues with dosing or plant growth in any of my tanks. The whole reason im posting this is because I was buying some KNO3 and KH204 from a forum member. I asked if he ad anything else that I might be interested in and he said I could have the FG and EDTA Fe chelate. Now im just trying to figure out the best way to dose both of them.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Tug]

This is what I would do.

1. Add ~12mL of Excel to 500mL of distilled water let it stand for a few minutes, do the hokey-pokey and shake it all about.
2. Add 3 teaspoons of CSM+B + 1 teaspoon of Fe EDTA

And dose the following three times a week.

Dose 10mL into the 37g
The CSM+B will give you ~ 0.1ppm Fe
Fe EDTA ~ 0.1ppm

And, dose 5mL into the 60-pp (17g)
The CSM+B will give you ~ 0.1ppm Fe
Fe EDTA ~ 0.1ppm


The Fe Gluconate I would have in a separate bottle and dose every day or alternating days; that's up to you.
If you forget a day or two it's no big deal.

Add ~12mL of Excel to 500mL of distilled water let it sit for a bit.
Add 1 teaspoon Fe Gluconate let stand for a few minutes, etc.

Dose 10mL into the 37g ~ 0.05ppm

Dose 5mL into the 60-pp (17g) ~ 0.05ppm

My math brain is online.
http://calc.petalphile.com/

 

[darkoon]

pardon my ignorance here, what is the difference between Iron Chelate and Ferrous Gluconate, as well as the difference betweeen DTPA and EDTA Fe?
and can Ferrous Sulfate be used instead of Ferrous Gluconate?

 

[Biollante]

The Complexities of Complexation

Hi,

Gluconate (sugar acid, basically), DTPA (Diethylenetriaminepentaacetic acid) and EDTA (Ethylenedinitrilotetraacetic acid (Edetic acid)) are all called chelators, chelants, chelating agents, or sequestering agents.

This is a definition I like,i “chelation is a chemical combination with a metal in complexes in which the metal is part of a rng,” I stole it from http://www.chemicalland21.com/specialtychem/perchem/CHELATING AGENTS.htm that is a nice explanation.

The idea of chelates is to keep the iron bound up and in a form usable to plants.

Chelators are not taken into the plants.

Our aquatic plants (algae included) can and do use both the ferric and ferrous forms, many a brawl has started over that statement.

Chelants keep the iron in solution longer. Glucanate being a sugar is yummy stuff to bacteria and breaks down rather quickly in the oxic environment of our aquariums. :gw

DPTA is apparently somewhat longer lasting than EDTA as the pH rises.

There are many chelants and ways to complex iron.

If you are a subscriber, Tom Barr's Iron and Manganese’s Role in Aquatic Macrophytes, Volume 2, Issue 4, April 2006 is a good explanation of the whole iron and manganese thing and a bit on the role of chelants and complxiation.

I hope this helps, if not, well, I am an evil plant monster.

Biollante

 

[MarkMc]

Hi,

Gluconate (sugar acid, basically), DTPA (Diethylenetriaminepentaacetic acid) and EDTA (Ethylenedinitrilotetraacetic acid (Edetic acid)) are all called chelators, chelants, chelating agents, or sequestering agents.

This is a definition I like,i “chelation is a chemical combination with a metal in complexes in which the metal is part of a rng,” I stole it from http://www.chemicalland21.com/specialtychem/perchem/CHELATING AGENTS.htm that is a nice explanation.

The idea of chelates is to keep the iron bound up and in a form usable to plants.

Chelators are not taken into the plants.

Our aquatic plants (algae included) can and do use both the ferric and ferrous forms, many a brawl has started over that statement.

Chelants keep the iron in solution longer. Glucanate being a sugar is yummy stuff to bacteria and breaks down rather quickly in the oxic environment of our aquariums. :gw

DPTA is apparently somewhat longer lasting than EDTA as the pH rises.

There are many chelants and ways to complex iron.

If you are a subscriber, Tom Barr's Iron and Manganese’s Role in Aquatic Macrophytes, Volume 2, Issue 4, April 2006 is a good explanation of the whole iron and manganese thing and a bit on the role of chelants and complxiation.

I hope this helps, if not, well, I am an evil plant monster.

Biollante

Would you be so kind as to point me to a retail source of DPTA I have already acquired 10% iron chelate and ferrous gluconate from aquariumfertilzer.com but they don't indicate the chelator in the 10% so I'm assuming it's EDTA. Thanks.