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I want to change from using Seachem Iron to a Chelated Iron Powder

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by JenniferK, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. JenniferK

    JenniferK Junior Poster

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    Hi all,

    I have been using Seachem Flourish Iron and it's about run out. I have bought a powdered iron that states on the box that it's 13% chelated EDTA iron (it makes no mention of what the other 87% is :confused:).

    Could someone please tell me how I mix this up in a liquid form so it's about the same strength as the Seachem iron?

    Will this be as good as the Seachem iron product for my plants? Am I trying to be to frugal? Should I just buy more Seachem?

    Also if I mix up 500ml of this and store it in the old Seachem iron bottle, will it keep ok?

    Sorry for all the questions :)

    Thanks,

    Jennifer
     
  2. Matsyendra

    Matsyendra Junior Poster

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    Hey,

    Don't be sorry for questions. I don't know the answer but would love to learn also.
     
  3. Aquadream

    Aquadream Guru Class Expert

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    Hi Jennifer.
    If it is stated on the products package that it is EDTA chelated Iron 13% that would typically mean the Iron is 13 grams in 100 grams of the product. The rest will be the EDTA acid unless stated other wise.
    On the Seachem web site I read that 1 liter of Flourish Iron contains 10000mg of Fe++ or 10 grams of Iron. To make 500 ml of Iron supplement with your chelated Iron powder you will need 38.5 grams of the powder.
    To produce solution with the same accuracy as Seachem use 500 ml measurement chemical cup or anything else as accurate as you can get. Put the powder into the measurement cup and top up water up to the 500 ml mark.
    There should be no problem in using the old Seachem bottle. Just wash it well first.
     
  4. JenniferK

    JenniferK Junior Poster

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    Thank you very much :)
     
  5. JenniferK

    JenniferK Junior Poster

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    Thank you very much for your answer :)
     
  6. AquaticJim

    AquaticJim Guru Class Expert

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    Just to check that calculation.....wouldn't it be 10 grams of chelated iron?
     
  7. Crispino Ramos

    Crispino Ramos Guru Class Expert

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    Background information - Iron chelate, also known as chelated iron, is a soluble complex of iron, sodium and a chelating agent such as ethylenediaminetetraacetate (EDTA), EDDHA, or others, used to make the iron soluble in water and, for the purposes of agriculture, accessible to plants.

    Too much chelating agent like EDTA would burn the plant or toxic for handling. The rest of the percentage in the powder could be iron sulfate, potassium nitrate and salts like magnesium and sodium. The chelated iron using EDTA makes it soluble in water; without the chelating agent, iron would be hard to dissolve in water and become unavailable to plants.
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    You could use Fe gluconate which is the form of Fe that SeaChem uses, this is good for soft low KH tank water, 3 degrees or less.
    Or if you dose very often.

    I make a cocktail.

    I use ETDA(CMS+B) , DTPA Fe and Fe gluconate for my soft tank water, my KH is about 1 degree.

    Generally about 3:1:1 ratio by volume.

    I add a little Excel to this mix to retard any fungus, and I tend to make small batches more frequently that a huge jug. I also heat the water good before mixing the dry powers, this helps dissolve it fully.

    DTPH last about 2-3 days in solution, ETDA, maybe a few hours, 1/2 day, the Fe Gluc maybe a few hours/minutes.......

    Dose = exposure X concentration.

    So while some of the forms last longer, they are a LITTLE bit harder to break the bond for the plant to take in and use.
    So this method of using several chelators/ligands allows the best of all possible scenarios.
    I do not think we can make too much differences at low KH's, but at the higher ones, the DTPA will really help plants or if you are infrequent in your dosing.
     
  9. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    Jennifer -

    Wett's calculator, located here: http://calc.petalphile.com/ is very handy.

    I also mix up an Iron solution in an old 500ml Seachen Iron bottle.

    I mix 1 level tablespoon of 13% EDTA Iron with 500mls water, give it a good shake, and then dose 30mls 3x per week for my 100g tank.

    I spent quite a bit of time working with the gurus on here to come up with this mix. It is working well.

    I have some DTPA in my micros mix (I'm using Rexolin APN). I don't really care about the iron added here to be honest.

    From previous discussions, I believe you can add quite a lot of iron before it becomes toxic to fish.

    So yeah, without the chelator (DTPA, EDTA etc), the dry powder iron (e.g. Iron Sulphate) would quickly 'oxidise' once it is added to the aquarium making it unavailable to the plants. The stronger the chelator, the longer the iron takes to break down and oxidise. The trade off is that the stronger the chelator, the harder it is for the plants to 'get at' the iron.

    Regularly dosing EDTA iron, such as what you have, seems like the best shot to me. It's inexpensive, readily available etc.

    I'm not quite sure why Tom goes to the bother of making up a tri-iron solution given that there are plenty of people dosing with plain old EDTA without a problem..??

    Scott.
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Well, if I forget to dose, there's always some around.
    I also spike it with extra iron to be "sexy".
     
  11. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    Wouldn't the plants 'store up' enough iron to keep them going for a day or two though...?

    I remember your experiments that you were conducting with iron (high dosage + spikes etc). Anything conclusive?
     
  12. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Sure Hope Wet Adds 13% Fe So I Can Do This W/O Arithmetic...


    Hi Jennifer,

    I am no Guru but…:eek:


    Follow Aquadream and Crispino Ramos advice. Aquadream’s arithmetic is correct and as Aquadream says (always) mix for total solution. Adding the 38.5-grams to 500-ml of distilled water results in 538.5-ml solution that means your solution is about 7.7% more dilute or instead of a 10,000-ppm solution you have 9,230-ppm solution of chelated Fe[SUP]2+[/SUP].:)


    Scott’s “approximation” is approximately [SUP]1[/SUP]⁄[SUB]3 [/SUB] Seachem’s solution strength. The Seachem Iron is a 1% solution, or 10,000-ppm. :rolleyes:



    Assuming 4.4-grams per teaspoon (3 teaspoon = 1 tablespoon), 13.2-grams of 13% chelated Fe[SUP]2+[/SUP] into 500-ml of distilled water results in 513.2-ml of solution with a concentration of 0.34% or 3400-ppm.:)


    To approximate Seachem’s 1% solution with 13% chelated iron, mix approximately 38.5-grams (approximately 8 ¾ teaspoon) 13% Fe[SUP]2+[/SUP] into approximately 450-ml of distilled water, then add enough distilled water (approximately 12.5-ml) to make approximately 500-ml.:cool:


    Biollante

     
  13. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    I am only 1/8th guru, whereas Bio is 7/8ths, so go with what he said. :)
     
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