I want my Rotala Macrandra to look like the pros'

[Florin Ilia]

Hi,

My Rotala macrandra grows healthy but does not look its best. My reference is this article.

I am dosing:
1/32 tsp Plantprod Chelated Micronutrient Mix 3x/week (I also add 1/32 tsp Iron Chelate 13% once or twice a week)
1/8 tsp KNO[SUB]3[/SUB] & 1/32 tsp KH[SUB]2[/SUB]PO[SUB]4[/SUB] 3x/week
1/4 tsp Barr's GH Booster after the weekly water change
10ml Seachem Excel daily
and I inject ~45 ppm CO[SUB]2[/SUB].

Some pictures:

Out of the water, just to show the healthy root system and ramifications:

In the water. Leaves are smaller than they should (I think!), they're a little twisted, and definitely not as red as I'd like.



According to what I read on the internets, I should have 1.5ppm PO[SUB]4[/SUB] to get the red. Also I should have Iron. But to go 20ppm NO[SUB]3[/SUB]?

 

[dutchy]

This is also a plant that needs low GH and KH, typically less than 4. If it's higher, the plant might have difficulties. It will grow, but will not be very pretty. NO3 levels etc. are not that important, as long as there is enough.

The stunted leaves might also indicate a CO2 deficiency.

 

[Florin Ilia]

My GH is around 9 and my KH around 5. Would that explain the non-red color and the small, twisted leaves?

 

[Tom Barr]

My GH is around 9 and my KH around 5. Would that explain the non-red color and the small, twisted leaves?

I had the same tap water parameters and had a tougher time, but.that was 15 years ago.

I have soft water now and I added a few ratty stems from a LFS, it's growing back but takes some time.
Settings on cameras and the light colors from bulbs may have some impact, less the cherry red and more the organge hues are what I have seen in person, but rich sediment does seem to help IME.

I top it and allow the rooted portion to regrow, this seems to help. It's not a competitive plant regarding CO2, nor is magenta.

I've had nice color from magenta, the cherry color in the one pic.
I'm hesitant to judge color from pics off the web due to modifications.

If all we see is the top 6cm of a stem, that is not very telling, nor if the plant is only kept for a few weeks.months.......and if there's not a lot of for sale at the local plant club meetings with that same consistent cherry coloration.
In outdoor flow through toughs, potted in soil, this plant does quite well.

 

[dutchy]

I really have no problems with growing plants, but the tank also has GH 9 and KH 5, I couldn't grow it well until I dropped both these values.

 

[Tom Barr]

I really have no problems with growing plants, but the tank also has GH 9 and KH 5, I couldn't grow it well until I dropped both these values.

I have not seen anyone that has either, I'm not saying it cannot be done.....but I've not seen evidence yet...........

 

[Aquadream]

I have not seen anyone that has either, I'm not saying it cannot be done.....but I've not seen evidence yet...........

Well then, you guys should ask His Majesty ceg4048 from UKAPS forum. He insists that the KH in his tanks is 15 and the GH above 25 and RO is not needed if the water is that hard. Nice for the plants, huh!
There is the tread link.http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=18155

I just decided to shut up. Did not seem sensible to keep posting when there is this kind of expertise out there.

 

[Hallen]

He's absolutely right, there is no one disagreeing with that but as he also said; some species do require soft water. Species like Tonina's and Syngonanthus, perhaps even L. pantanal really dont seem to grow well in hard water. The Rotala macandra seems to be one of those species that dont reach optimal growth in hard water. Why? I dont know sadly (tricks like very high light and No3 starvation don't count)

I have got pretty hard water myself, just like most people I can grow alot of species without problems. But Tonina's etc just wont grow and melt down to the grown, I've tried several different species all with the same effect.

 

[Florin Ilia]

For the record, here's a Tonina fluviatilis from the same tank where the macrandras fail to be red:



It doesn't look that different from the pics I've seen on the net.

 

[Tom Barr]

Well then, you guys should ask His Majesty ceg4048 from UKAPS forum. He insists that the KH in his tanks is 15 and the GH above 25 and RO is not needed if the water is that hard. Nice for the plants, huh!
There is the tread link.http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=18155

I just decided to shut up. Did not seem sensible to keep posting when there is this kind of expertise out there.

I know Cecil

A simple thing is ask him to grow some Rotala macrandra and see. the species he has do do well in harder KH's, I have not found GH to be a factor nor has the local clubs where some have added a lot of GH booster.
Then he'll know or remain unable to grow it(thus while not absolute.........at least he will likely fail with a nice stand of this species). Who knows, maybe he will not, but he will never know unless he tries with that plant.

Try it and see, or show me the pictures of the plant in your tank.

I did this with many species living to Davis CA, never managed well with R macarandra, but pretty much everything else, Erios, L pantanal, Tonina etc, R wallichii.......etc etc........KH was about 7.

 

[Tom Barr]

For the record, here's a Tonina fluviatilis from the same tank where the macrandras fail to be red:



It doesn't look that different from the pics I've seen on the net.

Yes, this plant is fine in higher KH/GH's, here's my tank from Davis which is 17KH and 15GH, I cut this in 1/2 with RO.
So about 7-8KH and 7GH(measured in tank)

Mg was about 25ppm. Pretty high Mg......

 

[Florin Ilia]

I ordered a RO/DI unit. If I can get my wife not to throw it out when she sees it , then I'll see if softer water makes a difference.

 

[Tom Barr]

Just worry about KH...try for 1-3 degrees or 20-60ppm of alkalinity.

 

[Florin Ilia]

Thanks, I'll do that.

Is there any way to remove KH from the water other than the RO/DI device?

 

[Tom Barr]

Thanks, I'll do that.

Is there any way to remove KH from the water other than the RO/DI device?

HCL acids etc.........not a pretty way to do it...........burns and seers the nose and lungs.

 

[Florin Ilia]

RO/DI it is then.

 

[ShadowMac]

Best way I found to lower it. I tried the acid "buffer" from Seachem that was supposed to remove KH. I did better with growth and fish health without it. But my issues were along the learning curve and were more things than just playing around with KH.

Keep us updated on your efforts.

 

[Tom Barr]

Distilled vinegar should destroy KH also.

 

[jerrybforl]

Well then, you guys should ask His Majesty ceg4048 from UKAPS forum. He insists that the KH in his tanks is 15 and the GH above 25 and RO is not needed if the water is that hard. Nice for the plants, huh!
There is the tread link.http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=18155

I just decided to shut up. Did not seem sensible to keep posting when there is this kind of expertise out there.

I don't know what that guy is talking about but I live in south Florida and our water is hard! Plants DO struggle with the high KH and GH levels. I use RO water for better growth. Most of my fish that I keep our from South America so they love the softer water too! Some plants do do well in hard conditions but from my experience the plants I've kept most struggle. Also speaking with Gerry D and following his thread about his 220, he isn't happy with his growth either. He only lives 45min north of me so the water is very close as far as hardness. He is dosing EI religiously, lots of CO2, the perfect lighting, and plenty of water changes a week! I told him, as he and I have discussed many times, that the hard water affects the plants growth. He uses water straight from the tap. It's easy and convenient to use but it's not the best for planted tanks. I told him to look into a way to soften his water and get his KH and GH down. Just my 2cents...

 

[Tom Barr]

In SF and where I live we have awesome tap, same with NYC, OR, WA etc...........midwest, and FL often have harder limestone aquifers.
Davis CA had it...........I grew the tank's above with a 50% cut..........but could not if the water was straight tap.

I'm not sure you can generalize.........I've used only straight tap in SB, CA and the GH was 24, KH was 11.........I was able to grow very nice plants.
I do not think I could do well with R macrandra....but maybe I did not try hard enough. I cannot say.

I do not think GH has any impact, folks have jammed that up high with SeaChem Eq in the past, or GH booster.
KH is another matter.

It's also hard to say which plant species are effected, but I found I could grow very nice planted tanks without resorting to RO units while living in Goleta and Santa Barbara CA.
The "Red" Ludwigia would be a better red option.

The species Gerry has are not that picky about KH.
So it's really a debate based on specific species, less about generally, generally, yes......RO is not needed.
If you have a specific species you want to keep and are willing to hassle with RO....then sure.
Many do this for fish, but rarely...for plants....there are many options available for folks to switch out a plant etc.

I added some R. macrandra last week or so and some magenta.

I wanted some different reds and will phase out some of the green macrandra with the red both of which seems to be doing quite well.