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I Protest The Rules and Restraints Placed on My Posts

Discussion in 'Talk to Tom Barr' started by Biollante, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Dear All,

    I appreciate the public and private expressions of support and I am flattered.
    :)

    My protest remains.
    :p

    While I believe Tom Barr, unfortunately the Plant Guru Team does not seem to answer to him. This is why, on the surface this seems so hypocritical apparently to others and me.
    :(

    Each time I think to post my protest, I do simple Google searches and find many posts all over the internet by Tom Barr that say precisely what I wish to say, many of them more elegantly written than anything I could manage.

    • So why impose rules on me the namesake of this forum protests? :rolleyes: :confused:

    Yet when I protest, the Plant Guru Team publicly mocks me in an attempt to humiliate rather than answer the underlying question(s) or remove the sanctions (or threat of sanctions) imposed.
    :rolleyes:
    • I haven’t demanded anyone fess-up, just quietly or otherwise, please knock it off.

    Though it is debatable, really, I am not as stupid as I look,
    :uncomfortableness:
    • I understand the most confrontational thing anyone can do is question-established dogma.
    • Overturning or demonstrating myth, dogma, what have you, is false is simply too much for many folks.
    • I get it, conformity is not confrontational, and it is much easier to get along.
      • Maybe that makes a moderator’s job easier. ;)
    • So, you shut me up. Does that make anything I say or have said false? :confused:

    In any case, my words burden no one to any particular action.

    • If I am wrong, why not simply tell me how I am wrong. :)
      • I have been wrong before and am reasonably certain I will be again. :eek:

    Unlike many, I am happy to change my ways should they be in error.
    :eek:
    • It is why I read, study, question, observe and engage in honest debate.
      • If I were sure, I knew it all I wouldn’t bother.

    Which begs the question, why does anyone pose a question or publically write anything if they do not wish an honest answer?

    I seriously considered suing, but honestly, I have spent too much time in court and if you folks are happy being phony conformists trying to pass yourselves off as honest people of science, oh well, have your little delusion.

    When I come right down to it, I got my 80 bucks worth a long time ago…

    I will likely continue involvement by email or private mail. I will make it clear that they are “Unsolicited Comment, No Intention to Offend, Gurus Still Have Final Say.”

    I suggest THE PRINCIPAL ELEMENTS OF THE NATURE OF SCIENCE: DISPELLING THE MYTHS as a good read.

    :cool:
    Biollante
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I rather enjoy your post. I come off pretty gruff on line, but if I like someone, I come off might friendly too.
    You seem to have a lot of humility and that is , well, endearing to me.
    You also put a lot of effort into the post. Much more than I myself often do.

    We really do not have "rules" here, other than basic self inflicted embarrassment:miserable:
    I would expect you to cc me if you have issues with any moderators further. That's FAR easier than anyone suing anyone. I've been there, done that.

    See Novak vs APD

    If you feel uncomfortable about cc-ing, I will respect that, but realize I cannot correct the issue without knowing what, how, who and when it occurs.
    I have no disagreement with anything you have stated. I agree with them and hold those views as my own.
    I'm fairly confrontational on line, but it does not come across that way in person.

    If you wish to discuss it, pm me if you feel better that way. You should be able to post here without any edit, or issues in the future. I will keep a lazy eye on it.
    I had some things done like this to me on another forum, so I know it can really piss you off. I also chose not to name who was doing it, they know.
    That said, should be enough warning to know they should knock off doing it to you.
     
  3. puopg

    puopg Guru Class Expert

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    Did i miss something? :p
     
  4. hbosman

    hbosman Guru Class Expert

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    I certainly have always enjoyed Biollante's posts. He has answered some of my questions and I am greatful for that.
     
  5. gsjmia

    gsjmia Lifetime Members
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    I vaguely remember the post that seemed to have brought this all on.

    There must have been something more going on off-line, but all in all I never could figure out what was the nature of the crime (too snippy with newbie?) or the what was the punishment imposed (censorship?).

    Whatever all that was, I doubt most people care anymore.

    The Hatfields need to call the McCoys (or vice versa) and go to dinner and a movie or whatever.

    Aside from Tom, I don't know of any other frequent contributor with the math, chemistry, ichthyology and general all around verifiable scientific knowledge that Biollante brings to this forum [no disrespect meant to the other frequent contributors, like Gerryd, who contribute tons of knowledge and valuable experience].

    Good reliable information from a trusted source is hard to come by.

    I suspect both sides have gained experience from this [distraction] and it would be good for the forum if things could start fresh and Biollante (and all of his nom de plumes) could get back to contributing to the reason we visit this site each day.
     
  6. thegasman

    thegasman Subscriber

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    +1 Amen....
     
  7. Infulgeo

    Infulgeo Prolific Poster

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    I have neither idea nor inclination for any manner of confrontation especially that which occurs online and only came upon this post by accident; that being said, I have had several questions answered by Biollante and just thought he/she should be made aware of my appreciation for what appears to me to be a sharp and inquisitive mind contiguous with experiential expertise which after all is all that science can be, that which is made of experience sans controlled validation or no ;)

    Biollante has and will remain one of the few pedestrian personas for whom I regard with respect and confidence when operating on this forum in the interest of my increasingly varied pursuits. I would in fact go so far as to nominate him/her as a Plant Guru and hardly doubt such a nomination would go unsupported.

    -Infulgeo
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    +2

    I'm in the same boat. I spoke with the entire mod group and I think my position was clear about it.

    Being one of the Admin's, Biollante has my full support and may post to his/her desire.
    I've made this clear to any and everyone.

    That is the point of this forum, to share advice and offer better/different view points.
    Some views may not float, or cut the mustard. But this is not personal, it's actually honest and helpful.

    I also agree with Infulgo's comments.
     
  9. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    +3 for Biollante; he is a great help and although sometimes vague in his answering (to protect himself hehe) the answers always are very welcome!
     
  10. BraveBuc

    BraveBuc Junior Poster

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    As a newbie, I've lurked these forums quite a bit in the last six months. Many of the threads that really helped me out included posts from Biollante. Thanks to this and another forum to a lesser degree, I've gone from knowing nothing about aquariums to having wonderful healthy plant growth in my high tech tank in a short amount of time with minimal pains.

    The only problem I've ever had with Biollante's posts is there seems to be too much worrying about what other people think. Biollante has superior experience and knowledge of the hobby compared to me but then sometimes I don't even get to see his view point was on a subject. I guess stuff going on behind the scenes with mods would explain this.

    If there are disagreements on a topic, I'd love to see them hashed out in a thread. That way newbies like me can follow along and decide for ourselves based on the facts/observations presented.
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Biollante,

    I understand the sensitive nature of this more now that I've had a chance to review a piece together things, albeit indirectly and with considerable PITA digging.
    I will PM you and try and make the points clear to you.

    The goals are to have you feel better, understand, and be able to come back here and post freely.
     
  12. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Thank You

    Hi Tom,

    Happy to be back, all I have asked is to freely post, I will be happy as long as the same rules apply all the way around. Apparently very early on I offended someone, I tried to apologize, though to be honest I did not nor do I now know how or why… Doesn’t matter.

    So a blanket apology to all I have offended, particularly those able to manipulate access and posts, anyone wishing to take it up personally pm or email is good, keeping profanity to a minimum aids in my comprehension.

    I was offended by the interference with my access to the forum, alteration and deletion of posts that were in no way offensive or violated any rules, if you disagree, disagree or ignore them.

    Though perhaps inappropriate, the “digs” at the Plant Guru Team in the title bar were intentional, since my protests had gone unanswered, for those "digs" I do apologize, they are unworthy.

    Thank you for your time effort and patients.

    Biollante
     
  13. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    lol, didn't you mean patience? :gw;)
     
  14. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Welcome back. :)

    -
    A
     
  15. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Trying For The Nipat English Grammarian Award?

    Hi Gilles

    Yes indeed, I meant “patience” rather than “patients.”
    :eek: :rolleyes: :D
    • Obviously I meant patience as in “being patient,” “forbearance,” or “long-suffering.” :eek:
    • Unless I can con you into thinking, “patients” is a plural adjective at the end of a sentence. :D

    Misusing patience and patients is second only to my misuse of “likely,” Nipat was always good about spotting these errors and reminding me. He generally kept my posts almost literate.
    :)

    For the English grammar challenged:
    :gw
    • Gilles has caught me in a classic error that bedevils those for whom English is a second or in my case third language.
    • The noun form of the adjective “patience” and the singular form of the plural noun “patients” are homonyms.
    • Patience and patients are homophones (sound alike, the last “t” in patients is not pronounced).
    • The etymology of patience and patients are identical.
    :eek:
    Biollante
     
  16. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Do not feel bad, I worked at a LFS as a kid and said testicles instead of tentacles to a couple of customers about an anemone , they got a good laugh.
     
  17. gsjmia

    gsjmia Lifetime Members
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  18. thegasman

    thegasman Subscriber

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    Oh boy. That brings back a memory. I was in science class reading out loud to the rest of the class. I said orgasum when I should have been saying organism! Oh the embarrassment...
     
  19. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hope Everyone Had A Happy Arizona Day! It Has Gotten So Commercial Though

    Hi Gilles

    Okay, the vague thing, I hear that now and then. :eek:

    As with most things in life this ruckus has built on itself. :eek:

    Quite early on, Guru and other anointed folks made clear a number of subjects were off limits. :(

    Fair enough, that is why when the information deals with electronic devices, especially those that measure redox potential, use of probes of any sort, TOC the use of certain additives, alternate chemicals there is a fair list (or off limits bag). I tend to warn folks so they can avert their eyes. Mainly I try to work around those subjects and/or pm or email folks on “those” subjects.

    • Honestly, I don’t go out of my way to make folks angry. :uncomfortableness:

    Another reason for vagueness is that I may not have understood the “real” question or issue and may require feedback. ;)

    Sometimes I try to cover areas too broadly. I always figure there are others reading the posts.

    Another is as BraveBuc says I spend too much time worrying what someone else thinks,:uncomfortableness: with the unintended consequence being actually angering folks more than otherwise. :(

    Concern about offending may be perceived by forum bullies as weakness.:eek: I try to use the title lines as an albeit, passive aggressive method of warning the bullies, especially those that like to bully from behind some cloak of presumed authority.

    Finally the main reason for the vagueness may well be I am trying figure things out.

    I like to be sure, of what I am offering and I really am not very smart, so I try things and see what works, how best to prove it. Mainly though I want to convince myself, I know some of this is self-indulgent,:eek: maybe even arrogant (so some say),:( it is funny no matter how many times I say so much of something will dissolve into this much water, I have to do it each time.:eek:

    The who is who thread is a good example, BigFlusher (he and his wife provide me a firewall in real life) thought I would like this one. So, we talked about it a bit, and no-offence to anyone, I thought testing GH was kind of round-about. Post #6 was the result; I did not know about the last line and I suspect a set up…:eek:

    Off the bat, I thought about the taste thing, potassium nitrate really is quite mild, I did some scurrying around to find documentation, and I do not like to say anything I cannot properly cite.

    • Since taking a beating from the Guru types and others for “trying to make everyone think I was smart,” or “show-off” and so forth, I no longer include much in my posts but I still like to be able to lay my hands on proper citation before posting.

    As usual, I looked the compounds up in my trusty, if somewhat out of date 86[SUP]th[/SUP] Edition of the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, pages 4-55, 4-80 and 8-13 covers almost everything I needed.

    Strangely, nothing about taste, huh, what an omission…

    Best I could do on my own was US Department of the Interior, US Geological Survey, Bulletin 523, Nitrate Deposits, page 7, numbers 2 and 3.

    • A young man I once employed while he was in graduate school, now, a soon to be retired PhD geology type (helping me with my study of various aquarium rock and substrate), provided me a stack of citations. :)
    • Turned out I have a couple of good references at hand. :cool:

    Naturally, I have to do a blind taste test, to make sure I can tell the difference.

    For the taste test, I had potassium nitrate, strontium nitrate, calcium nitrate, magnesium nitrate.

    • That great comedic talent TheLoudCreatureWhatSharesMySpace added a bag of fresh ground Parmesan cheese.
      • (I have barium nitrate, but barium is nasty stuff, so I did not try that.)

    • For the record, I correctly identified all on each try! :gw

    Burning is obvious and fun.:D Of course, I had to “verify” all of this.:eek:

    The alcohol thing occurred to me, though actually very cold water would work as well.

    DaBub’s post #11 made me realize that plain water would work as well, not sure why it had not occurred to me earlier.

    I also just noticed DaBub got the listed density for KNO[SUB]3[/SUB] wrong, it should be 2.11-[SUP]g[/SUP]∕[SUB]cm³[/SUB], appears to be typo.

    Anyway, no real brains mostly tedious…:eek:

    Biollante
     
  20. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi Biollante,

    Thank you for expressing your opinion. As a member of the pgt I abhor censorship in any form and do not tolerate bullying as a personal thing, as I have been a victim of it in the past...

    I do not personally know any of the pgt team members, having only 'met' them via the forum, but feel comfortable that they feel the same way towards censorship and bullying as I do and Tom has expressed. I have not seen any evidence of the sort of behavior to which you refer quite honestly. I know that you have taken to responding to posts in the past via PM for fear of tampering. This is intolerable.

    There is no reason in my mind for you to need to qualify any of your posts re: disagreement or crossing some expert or the other. You are obviously intelligent and have much varied experience and have helped many folk here.

    Folks here can make up their own mind if someone rebuts something you said.

    Allow me to respond to some of your statements.

    Can you provide a cut/paste of an email, post, or PM where this was done? Which gurus or anointed folk did this? Name names. I do not ask you to provide it if it violates privacy concerns or if you have fears or retribution. What can they do?

    Can you please provide an example of bullying by the plant guru team? Again, name names.

    This methodology does nothing to further the discussion or to seek root cause. I see that even the first bullet of your signature contains a qualification about not being a 'guru' with 'guru' in apparent self mocking quotes. Your posts have other comments like this and not just in the title. You also refer in several threads to having to PM due to censorship fear. This presents only 1 side of the story and presents the reader with the assumption that censorship is a given and occurs a lot.

    Would not the censors delete these types of comments or your PM to whomever posted originally?

    Still yet I ask for some small evidence of this behavior.

    I do NOT claim this has not occurred, just that I have not seen it nor am I privy to it. I name you neither liar nor fool. I think edan open and honest dialogue is needed now more than ever.

    Honestly, I have been puzzled for the entire duration of your protest from day 1 as I have not been privy to any conspiracy here against your nor obviously have I seen deleted posts,as this is beyond my capabilities as a moderator, nor would I ever even want this type of power or authority. The only reason I ASKED to be on the team was to simply help manage the spam a few years back before Greg installed his great software. I spend all of my moderation time simply deleting SPAM posts (and I do not consider your posts 'spam') and banning those users.

    In all this time neither Tom nor Greg has ever asked me about anything I have done in this regard nor has there been a complaint (of which I am aware) that I banned a member in error or malice. This is a labor of love for me as I like to share experiences and have learned a tremendous amount here.

    I just want to say that while I do not take your (or anyones) comment(s) personally (as I have never censored or bullied anyone) I do not appreciate being tarred with such a broad brush just from being a member of the pgt. I think this is due more to the VOLUME of my posts and perhaps length of membership than any thought that I am an expert on anything at all. I claim some in my specific area of computer software and that is it :) I consider my membership more like if Harvard gave me a 'special' doctorate :) It was a nod to my efforts on behalf of the forum more than any expertise, real or imagined.

    I honestly question whether I will continue as a mod going forward as the better spam software seems to make my job obsolete (I don't mind) and I do not care to read another 'passive aggressive' comment directed at the pgt or for someone to impugn my (or the team's) integrity or moral compass, simply from being identified as a team member.

    It is insulting to anyone to claim as you have PUBLICLY several times AND w/o evidence (so far that I have seen) that they engage in such morally repugnant behavior and I do not appreciate it in any way, shape, or form from anyone. It is good that you have the support of your friends but their insults do nothing to redress the situation or to enhance the climate for communication.

    I wish you every success in all your future endeavors..

    Feel free to respond via PM but please cc Tom so he can be involved. I think it is better to have this discussion publicly as it impacts all members and the debate should not be hidden from view. Secrecy is usually not a good thing.

    Thanks for listening.

    Gerry
     
    #20 Gerryd, Feb 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2013

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