i just bought my fertilizers and need some help

[Tug]

Hi happi,
I hope you are enjoying the holidays.

i hope am not bugging you in any way.

It's just a little painful. I am trying to learn as well. Looking at another person's question and trying to work through their problem increases my understanding. But, I do get strained a bit with the workout and sometimes give fuzzy advice.
:gw Having said that, let me suggest you start to verify what you read and question the advice people give you, not take it on face value. I often learn more when I'm mildly argumentative or try to validate an idea. As an example, if you read Greg Watson's thread, EI light: for those less techy folks,

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2819-EI-light-for-those-less-techy-folks

you will see that the CSM+B stock solution given in the thread is twice the concentration I recommended. Until your plants grow in and your tank is heavily planted the amount I suggested should be fine to start with, but I would recommend you go back and read the EI guidelines and follow EI dosing as it is described. Later you might make stock solutions or reduce the amounts you dose as you choose.

Algae related answer:
The Koralia 1 is a good idea, 300gph is probably on the low end of flow that you would want for your 50. I think, I've read Tom uses a 250gph filter in his 20 gallon tank. But, other then flow, when you use the EI method, algae is most often a light problem (too much) or a CO2 problem (too little). Without knowing much more then that, you can be confident that it is there were your algae problems will be found.

i know that fish could die from adding too much nitrate. is there any of the other chemical which has the same effect if overdose etc.

Low dissolved oxygen and high ammonia are the 2 water quality parameters most likely to kill fish directly.

Best wishes,

 

[happi]

what the H**L just happened.

thank you for the information my friend. but when today i added my chemical to the water, i think something went wrong. i doesed phosphate and the water suddenly went cloudy. and it is still cloudy today. is this due to chemical reaction due to mixing them in the water. because i did not mix any chemical when i dosed them. i put each of them seperatly in the water.

thank you

 

[Tug]

Hi happi,
Glad to hear that your fertilizers arrived, but sorry I might not have an answer for you. When you add (phosphate) KH2PO4, did you add the CSM+B? If so, you should wait at least 4 hours to add the CSM+B. Most of us wait and add it the next day. What did you add? What color was the cloudy water? When did you add it? How much? You could try adding it to some of the water from the tank in a glass first, though adding it directly to the tank is probable not the cause of the water clouding. I'll see what happens if I try dosing it directly into the tank tomorrow. In the mean time there are a few threads around asking about cloudy water. See what you come across and let me know if you find something.

 

[happi]

hi

yes i did add it right after adding the csm+b. first i put some csm+b in the empty bottle and added some aquarium water to it, i shaked the bottle really well. and i added this to the tank without any problem. about 2 min later i added phosphate the same way i added the csm+b. this is when it made the water cloudy. i think i added 1/8 or half spoon of 1/4. i dont know if that was correctly done. i did add add my other chemicals as well but that was after the cloudiness. oh the color of cloudy water is milky white, looks more like fog.

thanks and i will look around for the answer.

 

[Tug]

I'm thinking the iron in the CSM+B formed a precipitate with the phosphate (PO4). You shouldn't add iron or CSM+B when you add the phosphate. Add them on different days and see if that fixes the problem. Are you dosing your 20 gallon tank? Is your 50 gallon up and running? I forget which tank your talking about. 1/8 teaspoon of what?

 

[happi]

hi tug

yes am using this on my 20g tank, the 50g is not currently setup yet. whatever you have said might have occur the cloudy water. i don't know how long this will take to go away. i added 2 ml of phosphate and 2ml of CSM+B into my 20g. 1/32 tsp is 2ml is that correct. i am noob at this teaspoon stuff.am not good at math lol. unless you could make it easier for me to understand this.

thanks again

i was wondering if that was waste or should i do another 50% water change and then add the fertilizer again.

which one can i add at the same time and which one i should not:

CSM+B Plantex
Mono Potassium Phosphate
Calcium Sulfate
Magnesium Sulfate
Potassium Nitrate

 

[Tug]

Fuzzy Wuzzy

hi happi,
I'll have to explain to Greg how that post seams unclear to some, but the 2mL must refer to how much is added to the tank from a stock solution he makes for liquid dosing, because 1/32 tsp equals 0.154ml (2.5mL = 1/2 tsp). http://www.metric-conversions.org/cgi-bin/util/convert.cgi Yes, a 50% water change is probably in order. Stop adding nutrients, and after a day or two, perform another water change. Start dosing again after your third water change. In the mean time add more plants. Tell me about your fish load and how fully planted your tank is. What are you lighting it with? Is this tank getting CO2 and if it is is it from a yeast reactor?

which one can i add at the same time and which one i should not:

Never add CSM+B or any product containing iron at the same time that you are adding phosphate (PO4), Mono Potassium Phosphate, (KH2PO4) has phosphate in it. As long as you dose PO4 and Fe on different days you should be alright. As an example, you might add Ca, Mg and CSM+B with the water change. Next day add KH2PO4 and KNO3. Just alternate days, CSM+B one day after KH2PO4 and KNO3. How often and how much depends on bio-mass, lighting, CO2, and what your goals are. It is not a static method and can be tailored to your needs. If you would like try adding 1 tablespoon to 250ml water to make a stock solution and then dose 2mL of the stock solution instead of the dry dose.

FYI; I don't think your water is low in calcium or that you need to add any Calcium Sulfate (CaSO4.2H2O) and the Magnesium Sulfate you need would not be much, maybe 1/4 tsp (teaspoon) right after a water change.

 

[Tug]

Too avoid trying to measure out 1/32 of a teaspoon, lets use two of your 250mL bottles and make two different stock solutions. The first will be for the trace you will be using. Add one tablespoon of CSM+B to 250mL distilled water. For the 20 gallon tank you can add 2mL of the stock solution you made, every other day, 3 times a week.

The other stock solution you will make will be for KH2PO4.

My tape water already has 2ppm of phosphate, so I dose half the amount I am going to recommend for your tank. If you can, find out what the phosphate levels are in your tap water you might be able to dose less, but the dose I am about to suggest will be fine and will not harm your fish (if you have any fish left).

Add one tablespoon of KH2PO4 (Mono Potassium Phosphate) to 250mL distilled water. For the 20 gallon tank you can add 2mL of the stock solution, every other day, 3 times a week, but not on the same day you are adding CSM+B.

Depending on what you tell me about your tap water, light, CO2, fish and plants, this might change, but if we were to put together a schedule for dosing your tank it might look something like this:
50% water change
2mL CSM+B Plantex stock solution
1/4 teaspoon of Magnesium Sulfate
Next day:
1/8 tsp KNO3 (Nitrate)
2mL KH2PO4 stock solution

Dose CSM+B and Magnesium Sulfate one day; KNO3 and KH2PO4 the next - 3 times a week.

 

[happi]

hi Tug

im sorry that i couldn't reply back quick enough and im sorry if my questions are bugging you.
anyway i find it easier for me to use the 250ml bottle and mix my chemicals in there.

i will add 1 table spoon of CSM+B into RO water and keep this in the fridge.
add 1 table spoon of Mono Potassium Phosphate to 250 ml and keep this in the fridge.

CSM+B = 1 table spoon (250 ml)
Mono Potassium Phosphate = 1 table spoon (250 ml)
Nitrate potassium = 2 table spoon (250 ml) i already have this made.

how do i make the calicium and Magnesium solution, can i mix these two together with CSM+B. and how much i should add to 250 ml water.

KNO3 and KH2PO4 do they have any kind of reaction if being mix into the water at the same time. is it ok to keep my nitrate bottle in room temp of 70F

my 20G tank setup:

aquaclear 20g-50g filter
rena heater
coralife 130Watts (i only use one bulb 6700k 65W) 3.25 WPG
Pressurized CO2 5lb diffuse with glass diffuser.
plants: java fern, dwarf hair grass, riccia and some others.
about 60-80 java leaf, about 1-2inches of dwarf hair and about 12" X 12" of riccia.
fishes: 4 rummy nose, 5-6 cardinal tetras, 6-7 neon tetras, 2 small algae eater, 1 siamese algae eater.

would this work for 50g tank. because this is what i use for my 20g
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rhinox-2000-Aqu...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4cfa7e9b

Too avoid trying to measure out 1/32 of a teaspoon, lets use two of your 250mL bottles and make two different stock solutions. The first will be for the trace you will be using. Add one tablespoon of CSM+B to 250mL distilled water. For the 20 gallon tank you can add 2mL of the stock solution you made, every other day, 3 times a week.

The other stock solution you will make will be for KH2PO4. Add one tablespoon of KH2PO4 (Mono Potassium Phosphate) to 250mL distilled water. For the 20 gallon tank you can add 2mL of the stock solution, every other day, 3 times a week, but not on the same day you are adding CSM+B.

Depending on what you tell me about your tap water, light, CO2, fish and plants, this might change, but if we were to put together a schedule for dosing your tank it might look something like this:
50% water change
2mL CSM+B Plantex stock solution
1/4 teaspoon of Magnesium Sulfate
Next day:
1/8 tsp KNO3 (Nitrate)
2mL KH2PO4 stock solution

Dose CSM+B and Magnesium Sulfate one day; KNO3 and KH2PO4 the next - 3 times a week.

 

[Tug]

You remind me of myself not long ago

how do i make the calcium and Magnesium solution, can i mix these two together with CSM+B. and how much i should add to 250 ml water.

Please find out which treatment plant is servicing your area - it will prevent a lot of guessing on my part. Why do you think you need to add calcium and magnesium? Unless your water is coming from the Big Cottonwood Treatment Plant your tap water has non-limiting levels of magnesium already. IMO, the levels of Ca and Mg from any of the treatment plants in your area will provide non limiting levels of those nutrients. If for some reason you feel you are seeing signs of Ca or Mg deficiency, add some to the fresh water at the time of the water change. One heaping 1/4 teaspoon should be sufficient. This is much easier then making a stock solution and you only need to add it when you are doing your water changes. K+, Mg, Ca are salts in terms of use by plants. You can add fairly high amounts when you change the water and they will be fine.

Nitrate potassium = 2 table spoon (250 ml) i already have this made.
fishes: 4 rummy nose, 5-6 cardinal tetras, 6-7 neon tetras, 2 small algae eater, 1 siamese algae eater.

What are you adding currently to your 20 gallon tank? 4mL of your nitrate stock solution will give you ruffly 6ppm. EI is not static and should be tailored to what's already in your water. You might find that the fish and the food that your adding are giving you reasonably high levels of nitrogen and phosphate. Dose some excess to insure non-limiting amounts, but it is not cut in stone and can/should be adjusted up or down depending on the circumstances.

So to review. I suggest the following.
Find out which treatment plant is servicing your area and get a water quality report.

When you do your water change, add the following
Heaping 1/4 teaspoon of magnesium sulfate (once a week w/water change only)
Heaping 1/4 teaspoon of calcium sulfate (once a week w/water change, only if you feel you must)
2mL CSM+B Plantex stock solution
NEXT DAY (day 2):
2mL KH2PO4 stock solution
4mL KNO3 (Nitrate) stock solution
NEXT DAY (day 3):
2mL CSM+B Plantex stock solution
NEXT DAY (day 4):
2mL KH2PO4 stock solution
4mL KNO3 (Nitrate) stock solution
NEXT DAY (day 5):
2mL CSM+B Plantex stock solution
NEXT DAY (day 6):
Rest/take a break from dosing/enjoy watching your fish
NEXT DAY (day 7):
50% water change ant start back at day one
Heaping 1/4 teaspoon of magnesium sulfate (once a week w/water change only)
Heaping 1/4 teaspoon of calcium sulfate (once a week w/water change only)
2mL CSM+B Plantex stock solution

The 2mL dose of CSM+B is on the light side but sufficient. You could dose up to twice this amount. The level you decide to dose might be some where within the range of 2mL to 5mL.

Some of the problems I see that you will be facing:
Too much light - try raising the light above the tank if you can.

Not enough CO2 - Your dwarf hair grass is a good indicator, as much as anything really. They grow much better when levels of CO2 are non-limiting, so if it's doing well then you can feel a little better about the levels of CO2. Consider a needle wheel adaptation for more efficient CO2 dispersal. Tom has a DIY reactor or you can try the DIY If mine using a Duetto DJ 100 power filter, (look on my blog).

Poor flow - find ways of improving the water flow w/out disturbing the water surface.

would this work for 50g tank. because this is what i use for my 20g
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rhinox-2000-Aqu...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4cfa7e9b

If you have low levels of CO2 now, then the same diffuser will not be of much use in a larger tank. You should start a new thread and ask about CO2 diffusers. We are starting to go a little off topic and CO2 would be better discussed in a new thread. Not trying to get rid of you, just saying someone else might be more help. The amount of light and CO2 are your biggest problem.

 

[happi]

hi tug

wow man thanks for your help. very very nice of you helping me out. thanks again and i will go ahed and create a new thread about the co2