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I have noticed that stopping Excel has made the plants grow crazy fast.

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by reef12, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. reef12

    reef12 Member

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    Can that be true?:confused:

    Actually took off in growth, well all the weed ones , but also the Gloss and Starougyne to grow fast also.

    Jeff
     
  2. gsjmia

    gsjmia Lifetime Members
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    I recently went through the same thing but I think it was because I was ovedosing and harming the plants. when I stopped, they went back to normal-good growth rate.
     
  3. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Not that surprising really.
     
  4. reef12

    reef12 Member

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    Why do you say that Tom?

    Is it excel is too strong with forced CO 2?



    I only dosed a tad less then two caps per day in a 125, less then called for, but still weeks between pruning, and now have to prune every week or can't see the fish ,wood ,or back of the tank, top of the water.:nightmare: LOL
     
    #4 reef12, Nov 1, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2013
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    The bacteria and the plants are not getting it for free like the CO2 gas basically.
    It is a general biocide , even if we add just a little bit, basically not more than 3-4ppm a day, the systems can process it.
    By focusing on the basics more, then stop using this, you should have better growth.

    Since you are watching the plants and the rates of growth more than say algae..........
    You are looking at the "right" things.
    Many still see growth with Excel but not as good growth, they often do not discern between these two rates.

    A good observer would see the differences and a broad range of differing rates of growth with light, Excel, CO2 , ferts etc.
     
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    The bacteria and the plants are not getting it for free like the CO2 gas basically.
    It is a general biocide , even if we add just a little bit, basically not more than 3-4ppm a day, the systems can process it.
    By focusing on the basics more, then stop using this, you should have better growth.

    Since you are watching the plants and the rates of growth more than say algae..........
    You are looking at the "right" things.
    Many still see growth with Excel but not as good growth, they often do not discern between these two rates.

    A good observer would see the differences and a broad range of differing rates of growth with light, Excel, CO2 , ferts etc.
     
  7. reef12

    reef12 Member

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    Thanks for in depth answer Tom all seems right to me.

    Jeff
     
  8. Yo-han

    Yo-han Guru Class Expert

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    That is why I stopped dosing it over a year ago. I initially stopped because I thought it was harming the microorganism in my tank/filter. My plants grew faster and healthier afterwards. Not sure whether excel has a direct effect on the plants or the symbiotic microorganism, I always assumed the second.

    I still have 3 gallon of homemade excel:p I use it for cleaning purposes now (stones/wood when emersed during water changes, CO2 diffusor etc.)
     
    #8 Yo-han, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2013
  9. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I hold a similar view.
     
  10. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    Well, I think I have been dissuaded from its frequent use. Although, to be honest I've never dosed it religiously. I can't believe I never considered the impact on the microorganisms.

    In the past I have used it to tackle some stubborn staghorn and BBA. Now that I have improved in general I don't need it as a weapon against algae.

    Good idea to have on hand as a cleaner, though.
     
  11. Christophe

    Christophe Subscriber
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    Is this strictly in context of systems that also have some other carbon source? I'm using Excel daily in a non-CO2 system and am getting somewhat skeptical that it is directly used by the plants. Is its primary benefit that it hurts established plants less than it hurts plants (algae) that have yet to get a foothold?
     
  12. reef12

    reef12 Member

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    Me I found out that plants were growing faster after I stopped.

    So I guess might be different to some other people.

    I do use it at water change days to rid some of the algae in the Moss though.

    Jeff
     
  13. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    @Christophe,

    excel breaks down into CO2 when it degrades. It is a biocide and is sometimes used to sterilize tools for medical use. To be honest I have never been good about dosing it regularly. I spot treat algae like BBA with it. Try to dose it at water changes, but other than that hit and miss if at all. In my low tech tank I did not use it and had no troubles growing low light plants without it. Plants are most likely better at repairing any cellular damage. Algae is unicellular, it just binds and grows together so is not necessarily a multicellular organism able to take damage the same way plants can. It would make sense that if plants are spending energy to repair small amounts of tissue damage that is not energy being put towards growth. In a non CO2 setup we would have to ask ourselves if the benefit of added carbon source outweighs the possible damage to the plants. It probably varies by plant species.
     
    #13 ShadowMac, Nov 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  14. Christophe

    Christophe Subscriber
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    It does seem to be working for me so far. I'm probably carbon-limited even with Excel, but I don't have much in the way of algae after three months and I'm getting what seems like reasonable growth out of the plants (Rotala Rotundofolia, Cabomba Caroliniana, Amazon Sword, pygmy chain sword). Just always looking for an advantage. Doing a split photoperiod also seems to help somewhat for what I've got.
     
  15. fjf888

    fjf888 Guru Class Expert

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    Been awhile since I have been on here. So is there a bottom line here regarding Excel use?

    Based on what I am reading here, the conclusion seems to be that there is no appreciable difference between using Excel vs. No Excel in a setup without CO2 injection.

    I had been debating on adding it to my non-CO2 nano setup, with weedy easy plants, but it seems to me that the benefits are marginal, at best.
     
  16. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    I also concur with observation. I stopped dosing it daily. Now I only use it to clean off my hardscape when GDA or BBA makes an appearance, and I spot dose these areas. Plants seem to color up nicely without the excel/glutaraldehyde. I think Tom's explanations make sense.
     
  17. Whiskey

    Whiskey Member

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    I don't know,.. I really think that in a tank with no CO2, Excel dosing at proper levels will improve growth over a tank with no Excel dosing. I haven't done any side by side comparisons mind you, but it seems to me that when I start dosing excel to a tank where I didn't dose it before the plants get an extra kick of growth.

    Whiskey
     
  18. fjf888

    fjf888 Guru Class Expert

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    What I'm not clear about regarding Tom's comments is whether it applies to a tank with CO2 injection or without CO2, or both. Assuming sufficient lighting in a and non limiting nutrients (EI fertilization as needed in a Non CO2 tank), CO2 would be the limiting factor to growth. It would then be logical to extend that excel supplementation would help in this case. Maybe for most the problem is lighting,nutrients and general care even in a no CO2 tank, in that case adding excel won't help.
     
  19. Kathy328i

    Kathy328i Lifetime Members
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    My non CO2 tank will never have the growth and plant variety of a CO2 tank. However by adding a small amount of excel 3x/week, I hope to improve the odds that CO2 is not too limiting. I believe I have seen the difference.
     
  20. Whiskey

    Whiskey Member

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    I don't have an exact quote, but Tom mentioned in the low tech methods thread excel could provide 200% (or something like that) growth increase over no carbon of any kind, and adding CO2 instead of Excel gives you far more than that.

    It's a good thread, worth a read, but it leaves me to believe that here Tom is specifically talking about focusing on CO2, rather than using excel as a crutch for not having your CO2 worked out.

    Whiskey
     
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