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Hygro melting.

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by Urkevitz, Aug 14, 2005.

  1. Urkevitz

    Urkevitz Junior Poster

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    A couple of months ago my Hygro Polysperma started melting. The symptoms started as leaves folding downward, the next day the leaves become translucent, and eventually fall off. I upped my nitrate dose via Spectracide Stump Remover to 3/8 teaspoon Daily. I was able to nurse some remaining stems back to health, but they have again started melting. I tried growing Hygro Polysperma Ceylon but it too melted. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

    I don't have any test kits, but I dose:

    3/8 teaspoon Spectracide stump remover daily.

    1ml fleet enema every other day

    15ml flourish comprehensive every other day

    1 teaspoon epsom salt weekly

    1 teaspoon dry CaCl2 weekly

    DIY CO2 2.5 gallon jug 6 cups of sugar, 2+ gallons water 1.5 teaspoon yeast changed every 3 weeks.

    Weekly 30-50% water change.
     
  2. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Hygro melting.

    While some say that test kits are not neccessary and a PITA, when trying to diagnose a problem like yours it is nice to get an idea as to what is in the water. There are a number of things that can influence that, in addition to what you dose.

    But for openers, what size is your aquarium, how much light is it getting, and what plants and animals are in it?

    Bill
     
  3. Urkevitz

    Urkevitz Junior Poster

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    Re: Hygro melting.

    Doh I forgot, 75 gallons, 11 hour photoperiod, 130 watts for 6 hours, 260 watts for 5 hours. I have about 40 small fish total (tetras, cherry barbs, a few SAE's). I feed the fish dried foods once a day.
     
  4. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Hygro melting.

    OK.

    Hygros like a lot of light, so I'd suggest that you get to at least 2 wpg for those 11 hours.

    Do you have any algae?

    It would still be nice to know what is in your water.

    Bill
     
  5. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Hygro melting.

    Perhaps it needs more iron, too. Hygro is one iron-loving plant...What are you using for substrate? If you have hard water, you may not have to dose CaCl2
    and MgSO4. Without knowing what's in your water and substrate, I'd say it's
    too much salt, not enough iron. I'd recommend getting KNO3 from Greg Watson
    and not using the Spectracide stuff, since they don't list what else is in it.

    You actually have enough light at 130w (unobstructed) for green hygro, but not the sunset variety.

    What dry food are you using?

    And of course, I'd suspect the CO2 delivery system is not up to task for
    a 75 gallon, since you're using DIY. If you went pressurized or ran 2 bottles
    of DIY with Tom's reactor and increased the light to full-on 260w, I think
    you'd see a difference.

    Bill
     
  6. Urkevitz

    Urkevitz Junior Poster

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    Re: Hygro melting.

    Thanks for the input guys, I am starting to think that there is something in the water that is either blocking uptake of NO3 or there is a chemical which the hygros are sensitive to.

    I don't think the lighting is a problem, I actually lowered the duration and intensity when the melting first started. I have a total of 390 watt of PC lights above the tank which I can use.

    The stump remover could possibly be to blame, but I have been using it for almost a year and a half without any problems.

    My substrate is shale gravel I collected from a river, it could possibly be causing a problem, or it has too much mulm built up.

    I think micros and iron can probably be ruled out. 15ml of Flourish ever other day seems like it would provide enough iron and micros, and it is alot more than I was dosing before the problems occur.

    While the Co2 may not be at optimum levels, I have great pearling from all of my plants and little algae. I shoot the Co2 directly into the cannister so I think it is dissolving okay.

    I mostly feed my fish Hikari freeze dried blooworms, and tubifex worms.

    My town recently opened a new water treatment plant, could they be adding something new to the water which could cause a problem? In addition there have been several boil water advisories due to water mane breaks.

    This is really frustrating me, I was growing huge amounts of hygro and pruning my tank weekly, and suddenly I can't even keep the plant alive.
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Hygro melting.

    CO2, CO2 and CO2.
    DIY + a larger tank and lots of light are a great way to cause an issue.
    Melting of a fast growing weed is a sure fire way to see the effects.

    Add 2 of those DIY reactors, change the DIY each week.
    Consider a gas tank system!!

    If you suspect the gravel, vacuum it in 1/3 or 1/12 sections each week.
    That will take care of that.

    You have effectively ruled out a nutrient deficenmcy, what you are very weak on is the CO2.

    Given N is 1.5 % of the plant and Carbon is 40%, which would you look at first considering the relative amounts and the DIY on a high light tank when a fast growing weed responds poorly?

    If you crank the CO2 and add the light/nutrients, that plant will grow like the weed that it is.

    Changing the CO2 brew once every 3 weeks is bad.
    Try either two bottles and change every two weeks and alternate them each week so you change one of them every week.

    DIY brew goes sour faster when the summer temps are higher.

    I'd dose 1/2 teaspoon of KNO3 every other day with the fleet and add a bit more of the fleet(perhaps 2 mls). About 1/2 teaspoon of the Epsom salt, rest seems fine.

    I'd do perhaps 70-80% water changes fior the next couple of weeks and net out any let over plant leaves etc, clean the filter etc.

    I suppose to some, this might seem rather mysterious but I've dealth with DIY CO2(used it on 6 tanks for 10 years) and helped more folks at this for over a decade now.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  8. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Hygro melting.

    I'd be asking for a current water report for sure, especially if you're on one
    of the mains that ruptured. Yep, your Flourish dose is what, 5 times the bottle
    directions? And at least 3 times a week, too, should be enough--although
    just for fun, try dosing some extra iron, anyway. :) How long have you been
    using the shale gravel? I've been thinking about using some too, but was
    warned by a friend that there could be something in the shale (I'm trying
    to remember what it was: one or more heavy metals?) that you wouldn't want in your tank. If you have a local geologist friend, give him a call. You have a
    CO2 test kit?

    Bill
     
  9. Urkevitz

    Urkevitz Junior Poster

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    Re: Hygro melting.

    Tom it does sound like CO2 is the culprit, kind of explains why the plant groes back, but then starts to die off again. The CO2 is probably fizzling out right when the plant is making a comeback.


    For now I am going to try growing the hygro in the shade of some other plants in the tank. I find it strange that I have been adding so many nutrients and yet have no algae problems, maybe its because most of my plants are crypts and are less dependent on CO2?



    Chubasco, I have had the shale gravel for over a year. I even use it in my shrimp grow out tank and it doesn't seem to harm anything.
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Hygro melting.

    Yes, you can have so so plant growth and poor CO2 and not much algae.
    Especially if the CO2 drops later in the week.

    Just like you mentioned(gee, how'd I know that? been there, done that and that's why I'm anal over CO2)
    If you had severe CO2 issues, then you'd get the algae, likely BBA.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  11. Urkevitz

    Urkevitz Junior Poster

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    Re: Hygro melting.

    My problem is gone, I bought legs for my aqualight to help lower the light intensity. I am also running all 260 watts for only 3 hours a day, the tank is looking better than ever.

    I was running way too much light for a tank with DIY Co2, some days I was even running 390 for 3 hours a day.
     
  12. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Hygro melting.

    I'm glad that your hygro has stopped melting and that your tank looks better.

    But now I am confused. You said that reducing the light solved the problem. While hygro will grow in a two wpg or less environment, like most plants it will grow faster with more light. Usually too much light without enough nutrients eventually leads to algae problems.

    Did you make any changes to the water or substrate? Around here the slag piles that resulted from the deep mining of coal are composed mainly of dark, shale-like sedimentary rocks, which I wouldn't want anywhere near an aquarium.

    BTW, a lot of hygro is grown without the benefit of augmented CO2.

    But, anyway, congratualtions!

    Bill
     
  13. Urkevitz

    Urkevitz Junior Poster

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    Re: Hygro melting.

    I was confused too, but Tom said that you can have so so growth without algae problems.

    I was overdoing it with the light, causing the hygro to melt due to lack of Co2. For me the hygro is growing faster with less light because it isn't dying :) .

    The shale in my tank is definetaly shale, its everywhere here. All my rocks in my tank are shale also.
     
  14. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Hygro melting.

    Sure, I've proven that to my satisfaction also, in most of my tanks.

    But so so or worse growth under high lighting was a recipe for algae, I always thought, particularly when the tank was fertilized as heavily as yours was and was low on CO2.

    But I guess not, eh?

    Bill
     
  15. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Hygro melting.

    The issue for so so growth I think you may be missing:
    Slower growth at less light, (rather than some implied negative connotation of poor growth).

    Less light= slower growth rate= more time to assimilate nutrients/less nutrient demand per second.

    You need less CO2 with less light.

    This also makes dosing more flexible, slows algae growth down(they light high light), saves energy and makes more frequent pruning less critical ansd the over tank more stable.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  16. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Hygro melting.

    Well, his hygro was not growing slowly. It was dying under varying lighting of between 1.7 wpg and 3.5 wpg.

    Right! In fact, you don't need any extra CO2.

    What do you think about 1.7 WPG for 75% of the time and 3.5 WPG for 25% of the time? Isn't environmental stability important in maintaining healthy plants? Sure, the intensity of the sun varies, but a lot of its energy is filtered out by the time it gets to the plants. Maybe it doesn't make much difference?

    Bill
     
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