How to wire a Burkert type 6011 solenoid

GillesF

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Allright, tested it on my cheap single stage regulator and I'm having the same problem. So I can safely assume it is not the regulator? There's no increase in pressure with this regulator though. The leak is still the same, very slow but noticeable.
 

GillesF

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I think I've fixed the problem. I noticed that the O-ring wasn't well placed so I used a screwdriver to push it in the black part. Now, my atomizer isn't diffusing CO2 at night anymore. I do notice that the little bubble at the inside of the JBJ drop checker changes from time to time (after an hour orso) but I guess that's just left over CO2.
 

Left C

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Do be sure to check your knock off JBJ style bubble counter for leaks from time to time especially where its brass hat meets the clear plastic cylinder threads. Sometimes silicon tape or a non-hardening Teflon based pipe joint compound will fix this seal. I've quit using mine. They are a pita.
 

Matt F.

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Left C;75441 said:
Do be sure to check your knock off JBJ style bubble counter for leaks from time to time especially where its brass hat meets the clear plastic cylinder threads. Sometimes silicon tape or a non-hardening Teflon based pipe joint compound will fix this seal. I've quit using mine. They are a pita.

10-4. I dislike JBJ bubble counters for this reason.
 

GillesF

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Yup, they have been tested for leaks. But my "solution" only worked for 1 day, now they are leaking again. Getting a bit tired of it ...
I've contacted Bürkert again (good online service by the way), will see if they know the solution.
 

Lost Csr

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Wow. I have been away from this thread for a while.
Sorry Gilles that your having some many problems with your set up.

I have used my set up from Early Jun/July can not remember to Sept when my 2Kg tank finally emptied.
Never had any problems (except when I panic the first day I installed parts and had a leak, Thanks Left).

I hope it gets resolved for you.
 

Left C

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GillesF;75785 said:
Is it possible that my problems are due to incorrect wiring? (like switching two cables)
What in the world is going on now? What is wrong?

I can't understand why you are having so much trouble. It is such a simple device. I'm very sorry, Gilles. You surely have to be disgusted.
1) Either it is wired correctly and it works or it is wired wrong and it doesn't. I do not know if you can wire it "backwards" and it will be open when it is supposed to be closed and closed when it is supposed to be open. Maybe you should double check the wiring.
2) Either it leaks or it doesn't. It can leak from more than one place. Are all your threads 1//8" NPT or are some G1/8" threads mixed in? That JBJ bubble counter can be a leaking fool. Maybe you should test it and every connection thoroughly. Crank up the working pressure if you have to so that you can check for leaks.
3) Either is works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, is it defective? Anything hindering it from operating correctly?
4) You found that you had it mounted in the reverse direction. Is there anything else wrong?
5) Those atomizers require higher pressures to operate, 30+ psi. Do you have your working pressure set high enough to work? Make sure the CO2 line is plumbed correctly and not leaking.
6) Because these atomizers require higher pressures, the CO2 tubing has to fit every component correctly so that it will not leak and so that it will not disconnect.

I'm just shooting in the dark because I do not know exactly what your problem is. I'm just offering some suggestions. Be sure to test each component thoroughly until you can determine exactly what is wrong. You are the one holding it and looking at it. It isn't us. It is up to you to find the defect(s).
 

GillesF

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Left C;75796 said:
What in the world is going on now? What is wrong?

I can't understand why you are having so much trouble. It is such a simple device. I'm very sorry, Gilles. You surely have to be disgusted.
1) Either it is wired correctly and it works or it is wired wrong and it doesn't. I do not know if you can wire it "backwards" and it will be open when it is supposed to be closed and closed when it is supposed to be open. Maybe you should double check the wiring. It is working but it looks like both solenoids are always open. So maybe there's something wrong with the wiring?
2) Either it leaks or it doesn't. It can leak from more than one place. Are all your threads 1//8" NPT or are some G1/8" threads mixed in? That JBJ bubble counter can be a leaking fool. Maybe you should test it and every connection thoroughly. Crank up the working pressure if you have to so that you can check for leaks. Only Swagelok parts and everything NPT, I'm gonna test the regulator without the JBJ this weekend. I've already cranked up the pressure, still the same, no leaks at the outside (tested with Swagelok product)
3) Either is works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, is it defective? Anything hindering it from operating correctly? Not as far as I know. I've e-mailed Bürkert and the only thing they could say was that the solenoids "should work under the circumstances".
4) You found that you had it mounted in the reverse direction. Is there anything else wrong? I don't know what else could be wrong, except maybe the rubber ring but that's well in place now. Direction is P --> A
5) Those atomizers require higher pressures to operate, 30+ psi. Do you have your working pressure set high enough to work? Make sure the CO2 line is plumbed correctly and not leaking. Yes, the atomizers are working correctly, no leaks. What do you mean with "plumbed"? The problem is not not getting CO2 but having CO2 24/7 on.
6) Because these atomizers require higher pressures, the CO2 tubing has to fit every component correctly so that it will not leak and so that it will not disconnect. CO2 diffusion is working properly but I'll double check

I'm just shooting in the dark because I do not know exactly what your problem is. I'm just offering some suggestions. Be sure to test each component thoroughly until you can determine exactly what is wrong. You are the one holding it and looking at it. It isn't us. It is up to you to find the defect(s).

And yes, I'm pretty disgusted lol. I bought these solenoids because of their high quality and they simply don't work (while my cheapo version did work properly). I find it strange that both solenoids do not work so I'm pretty sure it must be something I did ...
 

Left C

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I didn't know that this complaint was that they are open all the time. You've had both leaks and possible trash in your solenoid, haven't you?

Did some of the solenoids that you and Csr post have G1/8" ports? I remember something about this. ??

You can double check your wiring easy enough. You can even reverse the wiring and see it that fixes your problem. If not, you may have some trash in the solenoid. Then you need to blow it out.

Just use deductions to track your problem(s) down.

Can you take some pictures to show what is going on? They may or may not help us. They surely wouldn't hurt.
 

GillesF

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Both of my solenoids are NPT and I'm using NPT Swagelok connections between (regulator -> solenoid -> needle valve), there's no leaking at the outside, the solenoids are simply still passing through CO2 even when they are shut off. They have been doing this since the beginning and I have cleaned the inside. How do you blow them out properly? Simply by blowing into them or do you use a compressor? I know you can remove the black body completely to clean the inside but the screws are so soft that I'm unable to remove them without damaging (and for some reason Bürkert used a rare screw type, some sort of "star")
 

Left C

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I've never had to blow one out, so we'll have to wing it. Try this:
- turn up the working pressure to something like 40 psi or somewhere close to this or higher if you think that you need to
- close the knob on the CO2 cylinder
- unplug the solenoid
- remove the bubble counter/needle valve assembly
- plug in the solenoid to fully open it
- open the knob on the CO2 cylinder and let it blow for a few seconds then either turn off the CO2 cylinder knob or unplug the solenoid or do both
- repeat this step a couple of times

- Now close the knob on the CO2 cylinder and unplug the solenoid
- remove the solenoid and put it back on in the reverse direction
- now do the same steps to blow CO2 through it a few times

- close the knob on the CO2 cylinder and unplug the solenoid again
- remove the solenoid and put it back on in the correct direction with thread sealant
- again, blow it out a few times
- reassemble and test it

* the times that you have to completely remove the solenoid, you may want to blow some CO2 straight out of the regulator in case there is some trash there too
* be observant and look for anything that blows out
* do be very careful that you don't blow anything into your eyes and note that the gas is cold, be careful with it ... wear goggles and gloves

Does this make sense? When my solenoid turns off, the gas flows for a little while afterwards and then it stops. The flow doesn't stop abruptly.
 

Matt F.

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Send the solenoid back to your local Burkert distributor. They will send it back to their engineers to play with until they find something wrong. Chances are nothing is wrong.
If you mess with the solenoid it might cancel your warranty.
 

Left C

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Gilles sure is having a hard time with his installation. I just wonder what is wrong now??? He did have it installed backwards. It could be wired backwards or there is something hindering the solenoid from closing. Blowing it out wouldn't hurt. Matt's right. Gilles shouldn't try to take it apart in case it needs to go back to Burkert.

It seems to me that Gilles doesn't know how to diagnose what is going on. Solenoids are really simple. They are either open or they are closed. If they aren't working correctly, there are just a few things that could be causing this.
 
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oldpunk

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When you cleaned out the solenoid, (I'm assuming you took it apart) could it be possible you lost the little spring that sits behind the plunger? That would keep it from closing.

Edit - ops, it appears you haven't taken it apart yet. Perhaps something is wedged in with the plunger. I mean, there really isn't much going on inside the valve. There's an orifice, a seal, and a plunger with a spring behind it to close the valve when the power is off.
 
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GillesF

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Left C;75808 said:
I've never had to blow one out, so we'll have to wing it. Try this:
- turn up the working pressure to something like 40 psi or somewhere close to this or higher if you think that you need to
- close the knob on the CO2 cylinder
- unplug the solenoid
- remove the bubble counter/needle valve assembly
- plug in the solenoid to fully open it
- open the knob on the CO2 cylinder and let it blow for a few seconds then either turn off the CO2 cylinder knob or unplug the solenoid or do both
- repeat this step a couple of times

- Now close the knob on the CO2 cylinder and unplug the solenoid
- remove the solenoid and put it back on in the reverse direction
- now do the same steps to blow CO2 through it a few times

- close the knob on the CO2 cylinder and unplug the solenoid again
- remove the solenoid and put it back on in the correct direction with thread sealant
- again, blow it out a few times
- reassemble and test it

* the times that you have to completely remove the solenoid, you may want to blow some CO2 straight out of the regulator in case there is some trash there too
* be observant and look for anything that blows out
* do be very careful that you don't blow anything into your eyes and note that the gas is cold, be careful with it ... wear goggles and gloves

Does this make sense? When my solenoid turns off, the gas flows for a little while afterwards and then it stops. The flow doesn't stop abruptly.

Matt, the manufacturer of my regulator advised me to always close the working pressure before turning open the CO2 cylinder to avoid damaging of the regulator. Are you sure it won't damage it?

And I didn't take it apart. The Bürkert employee did tell me to remove the cap to clean the inside but I couldn't because of the rare screw type (in the form of a star, I have three of those and not one of them matches ...) and the screws are too soft.
 

Matt F.

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I always turn the working pressure knob all the way counter-clockwise (close) whenever I open/close the bottle.
Close the bottle, remove the needle valve. open the regulator all the way up, open the bottle, set working pressure for as high as it will go, then connect your solenoid to a power source. This will shoot a whole bunch of pressurized gas through the solenoid. Unplug the solenoid and make sure it closes and the gas stops. Then plug it in again.

DO THIS IS A WELL VENtilated area to avoid suffication. Also wear safety goggles in case anything becomes air-borne...

Remmeber once you plug the solenoid in, the only way to stop the gas flow is by unplugging it. there is no regulator (needle valve) to regulator flow.

GillesF;75878 said:
Matt, the manufacturer of my regulator advised me to always close the working pressure before turning open the CO2 cylinder to avoid damaging of the regulator. Are you sure it won't damage it?

And I didn't take it apart. The Bürkert employee did tell me to remove the cap to clean the inside but I couldn't because of the rare screw type (in the form of a star, I have three of those and not one of them matches ...) and the screws are too soft.
 

Lost Csr

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I do not know if this helps or not.
When I went to the hardware store for a outlet plug and cord, the guy gave me a regular wire with ground wire (green by the way).
There was no black or red. So it does not matter which wire goes to the connection.
 

GillesF

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Matt F.;75885 said:
I always turn the working pressure knob all the way counter-clockwise (close) whenever I open/close the bottle.
Close the bottle, remove the needle valve. open the regulator all the way up, open the bottle, set working pressure for as high as it will go, then connect your solenoid to a power source. This will shoot a whole bunch of pressurized gas through the solenoid. Unplug the solenoid and make sure it closes and the gas stops. Then plug it in again.

DO THIS IS A WELL VENtilated area to avoid suffication. Also wear safety goggles in case anything becomes air-borne...

Remmeber once you plug the solenoid in, the only way to stop the gas flow is by unplugging it. there is no regulator (needle valve) to regulator flow.

Thanks for the explanation, will try it today. I live in a small studio, so I'll have to open all the windows then :D

Lost Csr;75891 said:
I do not know if this helps or not.
When I went to the hardware store for a outlet plug and cord, the guy gave me a regular wire with ground wire (green by the way).
There was no black or red. So it does not matter which wire goes to the connection.

Well, the ground wiring is correct and the connection doesn't matter for the other two wires, indeed. My father told me I have to check whether or not the wiring is too thick for the solenoid. Maybe there's a connection between the copper wiring of two different wires. I don't know if this might cause the problem?

What I'll do now is:

1) blow out the solenoids using Matt's method
2) check the wiring

If that doesn't solve the problem, I'll have to send them back to Bürkert.
 

Matt F.

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GillesF;75913 said:
Thanks for the explanation, will try it today. I live in a small studio, so I'll have to open all the windows then :D



Well, the ground wiring is correct and the connection doesn't matter for the other two wires, indeed. My father told me I have to check whether or not the wiring is too thick for the solenoid. Maybe there's a connection between the copper wiring of two different wires. I don't know if this might cause the problem?

What I'll do now is:

1) blow out the solenoids using Matt's method
2) check the wiring

If that doesn't solve the problem, I'll have to send them back to Bürkert.

You have to make sure the wiring does not touch each other or the other leads. This can cause the solenoid to not open/close properly. Might also cause a fire I would guess.