How to choose mazzei injector?

[rusticitas]

I am a little confused how to choose between the 3/4/584(X) Mazzei injectors. I see the difference in connector sizes, 1/2", 3/4", etc. But other than that I'm not seeing what's different, even if I look at the downloadable PDF schematics.

-Jason

 

[rusticitas]

Could someone please answer this question? I would VERY much like to order one.

 

[tedr108]

I'll also be interested to see the answer to this question.

I just went out to their site and read up on them. If you've already chosen your plumbing, I would imagine you just pick the size that matches your plumbing. I'm wondering if the whole input pressure/back pressure thing wouldn't really apply to the aquarium hobby since we force the CO2 into the mazzei.

 

[jsrevenaugh]

Mazzei size

If you look around the site, you will find extensive discussions about sizing Mazzei's. What you want is a system with a pump with sufficient head to power water through the injector efficiently, creating a strong vacuum on the CO2 line that will largely dissolve the CO2 and provide some mist. The 3 or 5 series Mazzei's have different venturi throat diameters. The smaller throats coupled with a high head pump do an amazing job of dissolving CO2. The larger throats of the 5 series need a larger throughput to do the same, but if your pump (filter, powerhead) doesn't have high head then a larger throat will allow it to still move lots of water. You'll get mist. If the pump is powerful enough, it will be fairly fine mist--as fine as you get with a good quality diffuser, but more controllable.

So look around the site. Think about how you plan to drive the Mazzei, then worry about getting it plumbed into your system.

 

[Gerryd]

Jason,

jsr's advice is excellent.

I did a search on 'mazzei' on this site and reread most of the threads.

There are about 6-8 really good ones that speak alot about this.

What size tank/pump etc all play a part in addition to what you want to get out of the mazzei.

From what I understand they are very powerful and can easily be mis-used.

It seems important to be able to control the flow to these devices.

You can always fix the plumbing.

 

[Tom Barr]

By adding a valve on the loop, it's very easy to adjust the flow and dissolving rate, ultra fine mist.

Regards,
tom Barr

 

[rusticitas]

I thought that the Mazzei would just be used inline from my canister filter's output, so this is sounding much more complicated than I thought it was. I was first going to try this on the 20-Long in my kitchen, my "test" tank, but it sounds like a Mazzei is really intended for large tanks with more complex plumbing... And secondary/tertiary pumps, a flow or pressure gauge, and more?

Tom, on your 180 gallon starphire tank, I thought you just put the Mazzei inline on the output of the one Ocean Clear's return to the tank? Just plunked into the return flow, with nothing else.

-Jason

 

[Gerryd]

Jason,

You can plumb the mazzei that way (inline with the canister) it is just that the mazzei will REDUCE the flow in the tank and may affect other things like the distribution of your c02.


That is why Tom uses the ball valve/loop and there is usually a separate and/or beefed up main pump.


They are more for big tanks.

FYI, now that I have it correct, my 180 has DC green all over using an aqua medic 1000 with a venturi loop.

Plenty of c02, etc.

Why do you want a mazzei so bad? What is the application?

 

[rusticitas]

my 180 has DC green

What is "DC Green"?

Why do you want a mazzei so bad? What is the application?

It's not that I want one "bad," it is just that having read about it, I wanted to experiment with one. And I was getting confused by all of the specifications. I did, obviously understand the hose connector size (1/2", 3/4", etc) but there seemed to be other things to take into account when choosing the 384/484/584 etc that I was not clear on.

 

[Tom Barr]

Well, I do not think you are really going to get really effective results using one with a canister filter pump.

They are really under powered.
This is the trade off using a mazzei.

Now, there is a solution and it's along the lines you want........and it'll match the goal you have, but the trade off will be less mist control, but that might okay for you.

Aqua Medic Reducing Tee - 21 mm x Airline Tube (Aquarium > CO2 Systems/Access. > CO2 Accessories )

Note, there's no suction draw, this is not a venturi.
You need good check valves.

However, there is NO head pressure drop at all.
These are what I added to the lower flow systems using canister filters.

They work fairly well, the bubbles exiting are not many and not that large.
However, you do not get the ultra fine mist that comes out of the mazzei.
The high pressure is what creates the energy to shed the gas to bits to form the froth.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[Gerryd]

Jason,

DC green is shorthand for stating that my drop checker (DC) filled with a 4kh solution shows a nice green color.

I have several of them and move them around the tank to ensure adequate c02 (I hope) all over the tank.

Per our measurements, this is between 30-40 ppm of c02.

This is not exact science, but what we hope to get.

This is an indication that c02 levels are adequate, but not confirmation.

It usually takes between 2-4 hours for the color to reflect your tank. That is why they are an indicator only...........

 

[Tom Barr]

Other important factors with CO2:

Good current, some surface movement(you still need O2 from the air above), simply watching the plants and the fish.
Slowly adjust things up from a low set point.
Keep a good eye on fish, do not base it on one day's behavior, give it time before as well as the plants. Plants will do very well if there is plenty of CO2.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[rusticitas]

DC green is shorthand for stating that my drop checker (DC) filled with a 4kh solution shows a nice green color.

Got it, just didn't know what you meant by "DC" ... it helps to spell it out the first instance you use it and put the acronym in parentheses behind it: drop checker (DC). Then you can use the acronym from then on and any reader will know what you are talking about.

 

[rusticitas]

We're getting waaaay off topic here. All I wanted to know is what the practical differences, ignoring the connector size (ie. 1/2" vs 3/4"), are between the 384 and 484 Mazzei...

 

[rusticitas]

What's the practical difference, if any, between the "PVDF NAT" and "PVDF BLK" other than $22 more for the former?

Is it just color?

 

[mrkookm]

We're getting waaaay off topic here. All I wanted to know is what the practical differences, ignoring the connector size (ie. 1/2" vs 3/4"), are between the 384 and 484 Mazzei...

Take a look at the picture below under the AIR SUCTION heading. Look at the Motive Flow GPM of each model and it's corresponding Air Suction SCFH . As shown, the smaller Mazzei generates more suction at the same GPM as the bigger model as the outlet pressure increases. While the 484 might have a tad more suction at 0psi outlet, this cannot be used to accurately gauge the size needed therefore it's best to start looking at the numbers higher than 0psi. Why? Realistically once the Mazzei is installed on a typical plumbing setup the outlet will have some resistance, hence the need to look above 0psi.

This is the reason why it's suggested to use a high head pump so that high inlet pressures can be applied, the higher you can provide the better the mist/co2 dissolving will be. In the Mazzei world bigger injector does not mean better and this is where most fail.

What's the practical difference, if any, between the "PVDF NAT" and "PVDF BLK" other than $22 more for the former?

Is it just color?

Better Chemical resistance I believe.

 

[rusticitas]

Ah! Thank you!!!! While I sort of understood the number charts to a limited extent, deciphering it was the problem! Okay, so say for a ~350 gph pump with 1/2" input and output on a 20-long tank{1}, I would probably be better off with the smaller of the Mazzei's as this would theoretically provide the best suction and dissolution of the CO2 with the water. Am I getting this? An injector such as the 284 would be the more useful choice most likely, no?

-Jason

{1} Just as an example, it's currently my test tank. I'm getting quite good lately at growing BBA, actually.

 

[rafel]

Gerry et al.
While I am running my AM1000 for the moment with Eheim 2228 on my 180g, I am also finding reason(s) to switch to diffuser or even Mazzei.

Q1. I have read that most will recommend to have 2x diffuser for a 180g tank. Now if I were to use Mazzei injector, do I have to use 2x Mazzei or is it that efficient that I only need one?


I have an Eheim 1060 pump that I can use to drive a Mazzei. It is rated at 2280 LPH or about 600 GPH. Here is some spec of the 1060:

delivery head Hmax 3.7 metre
power consumption 65 watt
tubing connection: pressure side 18mm / G 3/4” (But I can fit in the Eheim 16/22mm with no problem)

Q2. Which of the Mazzei model that is suitable for me?

Thank you in advance.

 

[rafel]

Any suggestion ? TIA.

 

[Gerryd]

Hi Rafel,

Any suggestion ? TIA.

Sorry, I took a couple days off of Q&A duty..........LOL

Q1. I have read that most will recommend to have 2x diffuser for a 180g tank. Now if I were to use Mazzei injector, do I have to use 2x Mazzei or is it that efficient that I only need one?

Just one should work. I have a 180 as well as Tom and only 1 mazzei is needed.
Caveat of course is that it is properly powered and sized for your application/configuration.

Q2. Which of the Mazzei model that is suitable for me?

I am not sure that size pump will do the job. Venturis work using pressure not flow. So a high flow mag drive pump will not do as well as say a higher pressure Iwaki that may have less flow...

You can certainly try it, but not sure if it will work. I tried running my mazzei at first on a mag 500 and than a 9.5 and still didn't do the job for me. It 'works' just not optimally and then you may think, 'oh mazzeis aren't all that' when the issue is that it was not used/configured properly.

When I finally went with a nice high pressure pump, the mazzei performance was as it should be.

I am currently using a 384 model but have also used the 584 model as well on my tank.

I am currently powering with a pan world ps250 which is a big pump... However it is also powering my two NC canisters as well.

I am pretty sure ran his mazzei on his 180 with an Iwaki 70 (I think) if that gives you a comparison.

He has since switched back to discs with no apparent detrimental effects on his tank....

Two diffusers will also work well.........