How much is 'too much'?

Aviel Livay

Junior Poster
Feb 20, 2005
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1
Hi,

Another thread was dealing with the fact that there's no redfield ratio and that all you need to do is supply your plants with enough ferts and they (the plants) will consume whatever they need. That's fine.

But isn't there 'too much'? I am asking especially regarding micros. EI recommends 5 ml x 3 times a week. It doesn't even say if it's seachem or not if I am not wrong and if it's seachem then it doesn't say whether it's flourish, flourish iron or flourish trace... So the idea is - just dump the micros - don't worry about them too much. They are last on the list... :)

And my question is whether too much iron, or too much manganse or too much zinc can poison the plants. I think Diane Walstad says that yes they can definitely posion the plants but I want to hear what Tom Barr has to say about high light CO2 enriched tanks.

I did one small 'isolated' experiment, I stopped dosing micros for 3-4 days and the plants went pale, they were not as vivid as before but pearling went up considerably.

An oh - one last thing - people often say that or used to say that too much micros give thread algae. Well, before we shoot them, maybe-just-maybe that algae thrives just because the plants are semi poisoned???

I shall appreciate feedback on this,

Thanks,

Aviel.
 

fosteder

Guru Class Expert
Feb 3, 2005
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Rochester, NH
Re: How much is 'too much'?

too much iron will kill your fish. that being said, Tom has stated in some other threads that he has had his iron levels well over normal suggested amounts without problems with algae etc.

So yes, there is a "too much" level. Once you are dosing a lot more than your plants can uptake, you are just wasting ferts. They are presumably removed during a large water change. That is why in the EI article Tom has given some goal levels for different ferts. It allows you to have as much as your plants need, but not too much waste.

Hope this helps. I am still relatively new to this, so I would get some other opinions as well. I've been wrong before. ;)
 

Aviel Livay

Junior Poster
Feb 20, 2005
13
0
1
Re: How much is 'too much'?

Fishless tank...

how much is too much? 1 ppm iron? 10 ppm iron? 100 ppm iron? :)

So if I put 100 ppm iron my only problem shall be wasting my money???

I don't think so!

Aviel.
 

Bill

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
Jan 23, 2005
124
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Houston, Tx.
Re: How much is 'too much'?

You use Seachem Flourish when following the EI.

Or you can go to Greg's site and purchase some Plantex.

Bill
 

Roman

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
Jan 23, 2005
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Dragomelj, Slovenia (EU)
Re: How much is 'too much'?

Aviel Livay said:
Fishless tank...

how much is too much? 1 ppm iron? 10 ppm iron? 100 ppm iron? :)

So if I put 100 ppm iron my only problem shall be wasting my money???

I don't think so!

Aviel.

1 ppm iron is fine :D

10 ppm iron is wasting money :) and probably that's all.

100 ppm iron is wasting money faster :rolleyes: and :confused: (ask Tom)
 

Tom Barr

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Staff member
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Jan 23, 2005
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Re: How much is 'too much'?

Aviel Livay said:
Hi,
But isn't there 'too much'? I am asking especially regarding micros. EI recommends 5 ml x 3 times a week. It doesn't even say if it's seachem or not if I am not wrong and if it's seachem then it doesn't say whether it's flourish, flourish iron or flourish trace... So the idea is - just dump the micros - don't worry about them too much. They are last on the list... :)

And my question is whether too much iron, or too much manganse or too much zinc can poison the plants. I think Diane Walstad says that yes they can definitely posion the plants but I want to hear what Tom Barr has to say about high light CO2 enriched tanks.

I did one small 'isolated' experiment, I stopped dosing micros for 3-4 days and the plants went pale, they were not as vivid as before but pearling went up considerably.

An oh - one last thing - people often say that or used to say that too much micros give thread algae. Well, before we shoot them, maybe-just-maybe that algae thrives just because the plants are semi poisoned???

I shall appreciate feedback on this,

Thanks,

Aviel.

In a non CO2 tank and in some places in nature there can be "too much". But a simple water change and also good plant growth = uptake and extra plants = pruning,.............thus export of excess Fe and Zn, Cu, Cd etc.

They use aquatic plants and wetlands for waste water treatment and removal of heavy metals..........

I've added a lot of traces, it is more plausible that the trace levels will effect the fish and critters first, not plants.

Does DW talk about that?
I don't have her book here at work, but somehow I doubt she did:)

Anyway, 4 liters of Flourish in 350 gal of water for 48 hours should be a massive overdose far beyond any need.

No issues there.

Chronic lower level dosing has not poroduced any ill effects either.

The amounts needed are quite small relative to LD 50(TLethal dose for 50% death of the organism in question).

We deal with Aquatic toxiocology very often here at work.

Wetlands that get loaded with heavy metals that can accumulate and cause issues.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Tom Barr

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Jan 23, 2005
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Re: How much is 'too much'?

Plants get stressed by things like no CO2, NO3, PO4, salt etc.

Trace emtal stresses do occur, but at such super high levels that far exceed anything we get close to.

A classic case of taking field research and misapplying it to aquariums much like PO4= algae, K+=> inhibits Ca uptake....... ad nauseum.............

But that's what I here for:)

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

baruch mor

Prolific Poster
Jan 23, 2005
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Re: How much is 'too much'?

tom, could u please tell what is the max dosege of CU in a "high tech" planted tank?
can we estimate the levels of CU somehow? what do u think of CU test kits?
 

Tom Barr

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Jan 23, 2005
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Re: How much is 'too much'?

Cu levels can be fairly high, it really depends on the species you are talking about.

Crypts can handle very high levels, wereas something like Lagarosiphon might only needs 1/100th for the same response.

It is very very difficult to add that much using a trace element mix though.

Regards,
Tom Barr