How much GPH? Need advice on head loss.

ntino

Guru Class Expert
Apr 29, 2008
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Tom, how loud will the 70 be? imagine a small room, around 9'x13' I think which is now used as an office, which is where I spend about 1 hour aday, sometimes more. I really cant use a pump thats going to be loud outside the stand, or heard well - the whole point of this tank was that it would be a piece of nice aquascape floating at eye level - no hoses, light and cord are also suspended from the ceiling, so it is high tech, but I dont want it looking or SOUNDING like there is an engine working underneath.
The pump I have now is fine with everything BUT the noise - Although a lower GPH higher head pump would make more sense, something like the 70 iwaki. I would pay double the price of the iwaki for a pump that had its charactiristics but silent or near silent.
The reason why I thought of the 12 m3 Red Dragon pump is because its supposed to be silent yet it has very similar specs to the dart I am using now, but even less head it seems.
Do you suggest I buy the iwaki, try it out, and if I dont like it, sell it? Many places mention it being loud... but then again many places said the dart is very quiet, and its NOT at all.


The guy on ebay seems to be dodging the question...

"Hi, it seems to run pretty quietly, you really hear the fan pushing air more than anything. I dont really see any play in the shaft on the back of the motor, although I cant check for any play on the pump side. There is a slight vibration upon start up could be some bearing wear. Mike"

Also, blueline pumps are said to be quieter than iwakis? all else being the same... is that true?
Do you guys know of any place online that would let me return if I didnt like it?
 

ntino

Guru Class Expert
Apr 29, 2008
104
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Jeremy, what about the 1psi of static pressure thats showing on the guage that shows 4psi?(the one thats right by the pump), shouldnt that be substracted?
if so, it would only give me 3psi, which is around 7' of pressure, which is good.

If I aim for 9 feet of pressure when everything is clogged up well, the 12000 Red dragon would give me around 5000 liters/h which is roughly 1250g/h which seems to be just the right pressure.

Intake on that pump is 1 1/2 and outlet is 1 1/4, is it ok to downsize both to 1" ? I would guess it is in my case, because its rated at 12000l/h so 5000l/h would only need 1 inch intake?
wattage difference is roughly 50w, so it seems like it would pay the price difference in about 5 years.... :D

I still cant decide what to do...
 

jeremy v

Guru Class Expert
Apr 17, 2008
166
2
18
Ntino,

Jeremy, what about the 1psi of static pressure thats showing on the guage that shows 4psi?(the one thats right by the pump), shouldnt that be substracted?
if so, it would only give me 3psi, which is around 7' of pressure, which is good.

You can only fully subtract the 1psi if there are no losses from the intake side of the pump plumbing when you are flowing a particular rate of water. If you had a 2" intake pipe for instance you could easily subtract the full 1psi, but with a 1" you can't. Lowering your total flow with a new pump would however also lower your output head and that would more than make up for any intake losses.

If I aim for 9 feet of pressure when everything is clogged up well, the 12000 Red dragon would give me around 5000 liters/h which is roughly 1250g/h which seems to be just the right pressure.

That would be a very safe choice for a pump with your particular setup. You can always throttle the flow down a little bit if necessary and you will still be using less power than just about any other pump would. It would give you more system headroom for adjusting your mazzei flow as well.

Intake on that pump is 1 1/2 and outlet is 1 1/4, is it ok to downsize both to 1" ? I would guess it is in my case, because its rated at 12000l/h so 5000l/h would only need 1 inch intake?

Most external pumps will be used in a sump type of a setup, or in a low head (1' or less) gravity fed type of a setup, and in that application it is necessary to have a larger input line to the pump to avoid losses. That's why there is a 1.5" input connection at the pump. You are running a complete intake siphon with several feet of water pressure helping you out to feed (push) water into the pump, so you will be fine with just the 1". The possible losses from the 1" on your output are largely negated because of the fact that you have multiple parallel paths for the water to travel through most of your plumbing system. If you were running everything in series through a single 1" line it would definitely benefit you to upsize your plumbing. Your minimal losses are reflected in the relatively low pressure ratings you are seeing with what would at first seem like a very high and inefficient flow rate for a 1" system.

Also, the pictures of your cabinet look like all the walls are just plywood, MDF, or some other hard surface. That type of a surface is very reflective to sound and can actually magnify pump noise. You might want to put a layer of that egg crate type of foam (or some other sound deadening/ noise canceling product) along the walls on the inside of the tank stand. If you can actually feel the vibration of the pump when you put your hands on the walls of the stand, possibly putting a heavy vibration dampener like dynamat would help as well. Just put it on all the largest and most easily accessible surfaces, and as much as possible on the back of the stand's door as well. That will deaden your pump noise a lot.

Have a good one, Jeremy

P.S.- I have never heard anyone mention that the Red Dragon pumps were louder than they were expecting after buying one, I have only heard comments about being surprised at how quiet they are and how long they last. I have never used one so I can't comment from experience, but if I was ever in need of a pump with the type of capability the Red Dragon pumps have that's most likely what I would buy.
 

ntino

Guru Class Expert
Apr 29, 2008
104
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Where can I buy something like that? I know of a material they use to insulate between the plywood of your house and the plastic siding itself, its basically hard styrofoam, maybe I should try that?
I knew when plumbing the system that doing this type of layout is going to effectivly lower overall plumbing resistance, it looks like alot of plumbing though. It would make alittle more sense to make the intake plumbing 1 1/2.
I know the Red dragon should be quiet and efficient, its just that its alot of money for a pump, I can afford to get one, but to be honest I dont think the prefomance is justified - amazingly enough, the cheapest reeflo pump - the Snapper offers very comparable preformance even even as far as wattage goes. However I am sure its going to be just as loud. I wish there was a pump similar in preformance to the iwaki 55 or 70 made by Royal Exclusiv or some other silent pump. BTW, does anybody sell Deltec pumps? I cant find anything at all.

P.S. I really wanted to thank you Jeremy for taking the time to write all these posts, you taught me alot and your posts are easy to read and easy to follow.

Regards,
Chris.
 

jeremy v

Guru Class Expert
Apr 17, 2008
166
2
18
Ntino,

Where can I buy something like that? I know of a material they use to insulate between the plywood of your house and the plastic siding itself, its basically hard styrofoam, maybe I should try that?

That (usually pink) rigid insulation for your house that they have at places like Home Depot is only for thermal insulation purposes, it does very little to deaden sound in comparison to other things that would take up the same volume. In order to deaden sounds effectively you really need something plush, squishy, and porous. That's why something like styrofoam won't do a very good job either.

If you have some actual pump vibration that transfers to the cabinet, you additionally need something heavy to deaden that as well. Otherwise the panels of the cabinet itself end up working like simple speaker cones (or a drum) and they radiate that vibrational noise to the room. Just making sure the pump isn't touching the cabinet might be enough to prevent that vibration to begin with, or else putting some rubber in-between the cabinet and the pump (where they do touch) would eliminate most of the vibrational noise. Screwing or bolting the pump to the cabinet directly will transfer all the pump's vibration to the cabinet structure and just make things worse in most cases, so don't do that unless absolutely necessary (and if you do put some rubber between them before tightening them together).

Dynamat is what they use for car stereo systems to dampen vibrations within the structure of the car for things like subwoofer installations. You can find that at any car stereo place. It is pretty expensive though. For just deadening the airborne humming sound emanating from the pump, anything that is soft and foam based will work well. I have used the cheap old-school (usually multicolored) foam carpet padding (you can get it at Home Depot in the flooring section), "closed cell" foam sheets (usually 4" thick and 2'x4' or so) from fabric or craft supply stores, etc. They all work well, and the thicker the product is the better it will deaden sound.

Also just sealing up the edges around the cabinet door with a simple stick-on felt weatherstripping will help keep sound from leaving the cabinet and also prevent the door itself from ever resonating against the cabinet (when it is closed) in the future.

I noticed that you have the plumbing screwed to the walls of the cabinet with DIY pipe strapping. Vibration from the pump might also be transferring through the PVC plumbing and into the frame of the cabinet through those tight pipe clamps as well. Removing the clamps and then wrapping some thin rubber matting around the plumbing pipes before re-installing the existing clamps would eliminate that. A good source for cheap sheets of rubber would be to just go to a pond store, watergarden nursery, etc. and get some pond liner. The two most common types of pond liner, EPDM and butyl rubber would both work perfectly. It will be very cheap that way. Just buy a few square feet and then cut it in strips and then double or triple layer it and you will have a nice rubber vibration barrier to wrap your pipes with wherever they are strapped to the cabinet walls.

I know the Red dragon should be quiet and efficient, its just that its alot of money for a pump, I can afford to get one, but to be honest I dont think the prefomance is justified - amazingly enough, the cheapest reeflo pump - the Snapper offers very comparable preformance even even as far as wattage goes. However I am sure its going to be just as loud.

Why don't you try just doing the sound deadening first. You might be surprised with how much quieter things become and end up being happy with the pump you already have. If the flow you have right now is too much for you, you could always make a "bypass loop" within your plumbing system under the tank. You do that by bridging your return and intake pipes together (somewhere close to where they both penetrate the bottom of the tank) and then putting a ball valve in that bridge to control/adjust the bypass flow. That will send some of the pump's filtered output water right back into the pump's input without it ever going to the tank first. Your filtration system would then still be flowing 2000gph or so, but your tank could be turned down to 1000gph or even lower if you wanted. That would also filter some of your water twice before it returned to the tank which might be a nice added feature.

You are right, the Red Dragon pumps are expensive and in many ways they are not a lot different from much cheaper pumps.

P.S. I really wanted to thank you Jeremy for taking the time to write all these posts, you taught me alot and your posts are easy to read and easy to follow.

No problem.

Have a good one, Jeremy
 

ntino

Guru Class Expert
Apr 29, 2008
104
0
16
jeremy v;29916 said:
Ntino,



That (usually pink) rigid insulation for your house that they have at places like Home Depot is only for thermal insulation purposes, it does very little to deaden sound in comparison to other things that would take up the same volume. In order to deaden sounds effectively you really need something plush, squishy, and porous. That's why something like styrofoam won't do a very good job either.

If you have some actual pump vibration that transfers to the cabinet, you additionally need something heavy to deaden that as well. Otherwise the panels of the cabinet itself end up working like simple speaker cones (or a drum) and they radiate that vibrational noise to the room. Just making sure the pump isn't touching the cabinet might be enough to prevent that vibration to begin with, or else putting some rubber in-between the cabinet and the pump (where they do touch) would eliminate most of the vibrational noise. Screwing or bolting the pump to the cabinet directly will transfer all the pump's vibration to the cabinet structure and just make things worse in most cases, so don't do that unless absolutely necessary (and if you do put some rubber between them before tightening them together).

Dynamat is what they use for car stereo systems to dampen vibrations within the structure of the car for things like subwoofer installations. You can find that at any car stereo place. It is pretty expensive though. For just deadening the airborne humming sound emanating from the pump, anything that is soft and foam based will work well. I have used the cheap old-school (usually multicolored) foam carpet padding (you can get it at Home Depot in the flooring section), "closed cell" foam sheets (usually 4" thick and 2'x4' or so) from fabric or craft supply stores, etc. They all work well, and the thicker the product is the better it will deaden sound.

Also just sealing up the edges around the cabinet door with a simple stick-on felt weatherstripping will help keep sound from leaving the cabinet and also prevent the door itself from ever resonating against the cabinet (when it is closed) in the future.

I noticed that you have the plumbing screwed to the walls of the cabinet with DIY pipe strapping. Vibration from the pump might also be transferring through the PVC plumbing and into the frame of the cabinet through those tight pipe clamps as well. Removing the clamps and then wrapping some thin rubber matting around the plumbing pipes before re-installing the existing clamps would eliminate that. A good source for cheap sheets of rubber would be to just go to a pond store, watergarden nursery, etc. and get some pond liner. The two most common types of pond liner, EPDM and butyl rubber would both work perfectly. It will be very cheap that way. Just buy a few square feet and then cut it in strips and then double or triple layer it and you will have a nice rubber vibration barrier to wrap your pipes with wherever they are strapped to the cabinet walls.

Unfortunately, the sound coming from the stand is actual pump sound(bearing sound) resonating against the stand. As I mentioned before, I did try the pump outside the stand, and it does make the same sound. When stand door is open, the sound amplifies because of the speaker like qualities of the stand(its a 3/4 plywood stand), when I close the door, it quiets, but not enough.
I dont have any vibration transmitted to the stand, the pump is screwed onto rubber which has special soft matress foam glued on top if it, if I put my hand onto the side of the stand where the pump is attached, I feel nothing. the plumbing only got attached to the stand after I verified that it would not cause vibration, and there is a piece of soft foam inbetween the piping and the wood(you just cant see it in the picture).

I will try working on the stand, but I am not so sure it will solve my problems, better trying that than paying double for a pump though - as nice as it is,although sometimes paying abit more for something makes alot of things easier in the long run - just think of times I would need to remove padding, the padding getting wet if there is some dripping, ect... :(.
Anything that would prevent sound from traveling inside the stand would basically work, I would just hate it to get in the way of the other stuff inside the stand, because of the limited space, alot of the space near the walls is already filled with things, but I will try my best - I think the biggest benefit would be from putting foam on the stand door panel.

Thanks again Jeremy.
-
Chris
 

jeremy v

Guru Class Expert
Apr 17, 2008
166
2
18
Ntino,

It sounds like you have already done a lot to keep the sound levels down. I agree with you, the biggest bang for the buck would be doing the back side of the door and also possibly some sort of a simple felt weatherstripping around the door to keep sound from escaping the seam around the door.

I hate to mention this, but it just dawned on me that your pump bearing noise might be caused by your pump being mounted vertically. I didn't think about it until I just read your response a minute ago. In previous posts I was too busy looking at your plumbing to think about it, but external pumps (that are built like yours, mag drive pumps are a different animal) are usually only designed for and are often required to be installed in a horizontal orientation only. Regular ball bearings are what most electric motors use on their shafts (Reeflo pumps included, I checked), and many types of regular ball bearings aren't designed for thrust loading applications.

The axial or thrust load in your case would be the weight of the pump shaft, impeller, internal cooling fan, and the motor windings plus any residual intake water pressure pushing down against the impeller after intake losses are accounted for. That loading could be causing a slight binding of the ball bearings within the bearing raceways if they are not the necessary type of ball bearings, which could easily cause the noise you are having.

Also, if the motor shaft itself has some axial play, a part of the shaft or pump impeller might be rubbing slightly inside the motor or pump housing when the shaft is slid all the way down like it is when the pump is mounted vertically. Many motors that have a slight axial play in their shafts will remain perfectly quiet as long as the shaft remains anywhere in the center range of that play. Mounting the motor vertically causes the weight of the internal motor parts to force the shaft all the way down in the motor housing. Depending on what part of the motor itself stops further movement of the shaft, it could bind the bearings slightly or at least cause friction to increase in some other part of the system whether it is audible or not.

You might have already tested to see if the noise changed due to orientation when you had the pump running outside of the cabinet, but I just thought I would mention it. No matter what though, I would personally never run any external pump vertically like that, because that would not be the standard expected orientation and set of parameters that the motor was naturally designed, tested, and optimized to operate under.

Sorry to be the bearer of possible bad news, but that could be the problem you have been having with the pumps being noisy. I hope I am wrong, but I just thought I should bring it up so that an answer to the question/possible issue with noise can be found out for sure one way or the other.

Have a good one, Jeremy
 

ntino

Guru Class Expert
Apr 29, 2008
104
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I suspected the same thing at the beginning, as it was beyond me as to how can people say these pumps are quiet when they clearly are not. So I unmounted the pump, purchased some flex hoses 1.5" and 1" attached them to the pump, primed it, and put it to work in a bath tub - testing vertical vs horisontal positioning - there was no change whatsoever, usually a pump thats designed to run horisontally only, would say so in the instructions. The noise with nothing attached to the pump is very much the same as the noise inside my cabinet - its slightly amplified unless I shut the door.
I will try dampening the stand today, if it doesnt work, I will need to get the Red dragon I guess....

I cannot believe these pumps all use cheap regular ball bearings, when there are other options such as hydrolic bearings, silicone carbide which wears alot less and allows for higher polish which would make more sense... surely somebody paying 350 for a pump would pay 400 if it had better bearings(more efficient, less noise)... I dont know much about pump technology, but I know reef people pay 2000+ for skimmers....

P.S. I will email reeflo and ask whether their pump can be mounted vertically, I suspect it can. In any case, it should not void warranty - I read their disclosure, there is nothing about this anywhere, not is it in the installation instructions.

It will be very hard for me to redesign the plumbing for horizontal mount - it would mean most likely a 90 elbow right before the input of the pump, which is not a good thing, and a complete redesign of everything else. on the other hand, I really dont think it would play a significant role as long as the pump is mounted in level, there shouldnt be more play, all in all, compared to water resistance, the weight of everything else is very minor and it shouldnt have an adverse effect. I will also email Royal exclusive and ask if the pump can be mounted vertically.


Edited - I emailed scott which is the US supplier for the red dragon pumps - he said that he doesnt believe that there would be any problem mounting the pump vertically.
I could build a shelf inside the stand at a certain hight and mount the pump there, but I am not that sure that these 2 pumps need to be mounted horizontally.

Another Edit - I have called reeflo and they said "it doesnt matter for out pumps, you can even mount them upside down, shouldnt matter at all for bearing noise and it does not effect preformance of the pump"

BAH!

-Chris.
 

jeremy v

Guru Class Expert
Apr 17, 2008
166
2
18
Ntino,

I will email reeflo and ask whether their pump can be mounted vertically, I suspect it can. In any case, it should not void warranty - I read their disclosure, there is nothing about this anywhere, not is it in the installation instructions.

That's a good idea. I could be wrong in relation to your specific pump (I hope I am), but I have read other instruction booklets for other pumps that have specifically told not to mount the pump vertically, so keep your fingers crossed. I looked over the online installation guide for your pump and all it said related to mounting was to mount the motor base to a secure and solid platform, or something to that effect. To be honest it was also one of the least informative installation manuals I have ever read. I would agree that they don't tell you not to mount it vertically, so the warranty should still be good.

on the other hand, I really dont think it would play a significant role as long as the pump is mounted in level, there shouldnt be more play, all in all, compared to water resistance, the weight of everything else is very minor and it shouldnt have an adverse effect. I will also email Royal exclusive and ask if the pump can be mounted vertically.

You might be right, and I hope I didn't just scare you for no reason if your pump is okay being mounted vertically. It is just that all of the pumps that I have ever seen mounted in a vertical orientation in commercial applications have all been designed differently and designed specifically for vertical only operation. Your pump manual does list it as having regular sealed ball bearings, so I would be very surprised if it was okay to load ball bearings in that manner.

Good luck.

Have a good one, Jeremy
 

ntino

Guru Class Expert
Apr 29, 2008
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I soundproofed with a thin layer of what seems to be soft foam. So far I used double foam on only 2 panels, I might do more later on. 1 Layer is about 1/8 of an inch.
Its much better now, however, it can still be heard, mostly the lower end humm which is hard to insulate for. I might keep this pump, because it actually looks like I might be able to be in the same room with the tank now. I wish I did this before starting the plumbing, I could of done a better job at insulating.]

Its still a loud pump I think.
 

jeremy v

Guru Class Expert
Apr 17, 2008
166
2
18
Ntino,

Edited - I emailed scott which is the US supplier for the red dragon pumps - he said that he doesnt believe that there would be any problem mounting the pump vertically.

I wouldn't expect there to be an issue with the Red Dragon pumps. If I remember correctly they are a "Mag Drive" style pump like most powerheads, etc. and that style can pretty much be mounted in any orientation for most brands. There are a few powerheads that don't like certain orientations and when put in them they put out some extra noise, but not many.

I have called reeflo and they said "it doesnt matter for our pumps, you can even mount them upside down, shouldnt matter at all for bearing noise and it does not effect preformance of the pump"

That is good to know and a nice thing to have actual confirmation of. Thanks for humoring me through this. I wouldn't expect it to be a problem being upside down (if they are meaning having the stock motor mounting plate on the top), because that is just a rotation of the pump along the same axis as normal, so all the loading on the pump and all its' parts would still be the same.

I am glad that this was not an issue. For other people out there that may be reading this, there is still something that needs to be watched carefully with this type of an orientation. Many external pumps have motor housings that are not "waterproof", but "weatherproof" to an extent. External pumps are always recommended to be installed in a dry covered enclosure (especially in outdoor pond related situations), but most still have some protection for the windings if the pump housing starts to leak, water drips on the pump while it is running, a little rain gets on it for some reason, etc. When you mount the pump vertically or with the pump water intake facing down there could be a greater risk of water getting into the motor and possibly shorting it out or damaging it.

Having it mounted vertically as Chris has it is still pretty safe from outside leaks or splashes causing any problems (the pump housing blocks water drips), but it could be a vulnerable orientation related to pump seal leaks. If the seal on the pump shaft itself ever started to leak that water might want to drip right through the windings and out the back of the motor. If the pump is mounted the opposite of how Chris has it right now, there is almost no chance of pump housing leaks ever damaging the pump, but splashes or drips from somewhere else could possibly go into the back of the pump (depending on what type of internal cooling fan guard/ cap the pump has). Just something to be careful of. It won't apply to all pumps, because there are lots of different motor housing designs, but it is just something for people to be aware of.

I have added sound deadening to lots of things in the past, and I am actually pleasantly surprised at how much of a difference you are saying you have with only two panels of the cabinet covered in foam so far. However, you will have more dramatic results than many other applications since you have a geometric enclosure with multiple parallel walls which together create added nodes of resonation and reflection. I don't usually notice a lot of difference until there is something on at least one of the the two parallel surfaces (of which there are three pairs in your cabinet), so you definitely still have gains to find. Make sure that at the very least you cover either the bottom (or) top, the left (or) right, and also the front (or) back.

Just to give you a frame of reference to work from, I would expect that you could cut your audible pump noise down to at most 1/3 of what it originally was with the door closed with simple sound deadening. If you want more deadening than that you will probably have to start looking for the little stuff and isolating and removing individual "noise leaks" for lack of a better term.

That is really nice, you must have had a lot of reflection from that cabinet. That would be a really neat thing if you could actually get this cabinet quiet enough to where you will be happy with this pump. That will save you a lot of money and hassle trying out other pumps in search for a quieter one.

If you want something to get rid of the airborne lower sounds there is a type of matting that is a self-adhesive foam sheeting that has a relatively heavy vinyl or rubberized surface on one side. That heavy vinyl on one side is what makes it work so well for lower sounds. You stick the foam to the cabinet walls so that the vinyl/rubber surface is away from the sides of the cabinet and it does a really good job. It is one of the main products they use for sound deadening in things like generator enclosures for permanently mounted residential and commercial generators, etc. You can find that stuff by just doing a Google search for sound deadening/sound matting, etc. The important part if you are thinking of making your own equivalent material is to have a relatively heavy flexible vinyl or rubber type of surface that can absorb lower sounds that is also mechanically separated and isolated from the cabinet itself (by the layer of foam in-between them). I have never tried it, but using spray glue to attach a layer of thick pond liner (or other rubberized matting) to the inside unused side of your already mounted foam might work just as well and be much cheaper. That would protect the foam against water and accidentally scraping chunks off during normal maintenance of the filters as well.

Have a good one, Jeremy
 

ntino

Guru Class Expert
Apr 29, 2008
104
0
16
I have insulated the entire cabinet, and I might keep the original pump... or not. The fact that I have lessened the noise still wont allow me to completely kill it as it would have with a quieter pump, but its a shame I didnt plan for this in the beginning - would of been alot easier. The type of foam I used is a pink all purpose insulation foam, the neat thing about it is that its water proof and it wont rip easily - its sort of like that thin foam/polyester material they use to package delicate electronics, but thicker.
Might insulate it some more when I have some spare time, maybe it will closer to silent with 3 layers of this stuff.

In the meanwhile, I have started DSM, with HC and abit of hairgrass - this is not the final scape though, there is driftwood and moss in the future.
pic is attached.

-Chris.

_MG_8806.jpg
 

jeremy v

Guru Class Expert
Apr 17, 2008
166
2
18
Ntino,

I might keep the original pump... or not.

Be careful there, don't over commit yourself, haha.

I have started DSM, with HC and a bit of hairgrass - this is not the final scape though, there is driftwood and moss in the future.

I like it already.

Are those returns clear PVC with clear end caps put on them and a bunch of holes drilled in them or are they something else? I also can't tell, do the tops screw on and off for removal and cleaning or are they press fit/glued? I like that a lot, it is very clean looking and the returns could be easily hidden behind some plants or driftwood.

Have a good one, Jeremy
 

ntino

Guru Class Expert
Apr 29, 2008
104
0
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Clear PVC

yes, its clear PVC with caps, of course the caps arent glued, I can take them off for cleaning, no real need to glue. The pipes are drilled as well as the caps at the top for water aggitation.
I purchase clear pvc and clear caps(I also intended to have abit of clear pvc in the stand, but there was no room for it). but the main thing was to be able to customize outflows, I have more pvc and more caps if I decide to redo it, its alot cleaner looking than lockline and its clear so unless it gets dirty it wont stick out, and even when it gets algae on it, it will still look better than black piping, especially in my tank that doesnt have a background.
 

Gerryd

Plant Guru Team
Lifetime Member
Sep 23, 2007
5,623
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South Florida
Hi Ntino,

Could you advise which model/type/mfg of pressure guages you used?

I purchased a cheapie at HD. Guage reads PSI 0-100 in 2 PSI increments. I don't think this is a good guage for my purposes though.

I would like to install 1 or 2 of these at places so I can know the PSI at various points in the system.

I know they make T with the top leg threaded already.

Thanks in advance.
 

ntino

Guru Class Expert
Apr 29, 2008
104
0
16
These are lifeguard PSI guages. they are 0-30. Idealy you would really want something in the 0-10 or 0-15 range, but the Lifeguard guages can be had for about 8$ each online. I believe the ones in HD are over 10$ and they are crap.

Just so you know, they come in 1/4' male treaded, so you will probably need an adapter or 2 for those Ts.
 

Gerryd

Plant Guru Team
Lifetime Member
Sep 23, 2007
5,623
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38
South Florida
Yes, I am looking for 0-15 max. The one I got was also 1/4 thread, so just needed one 1/4-3/4 adaptor and was good to go as they sell 1" PVC T with the top leg threaded......

For fun, I placed the T with guage just in the flow of a Koralia IV. I know nothing would happen, but the guage dial DID start to fill with water, so makes me more than a bit nervous to actually INSTALL this particular guage.

Do the better ones have a check valve that prevents water from entering the guage dial?

I will check out the lifeguards.

Thanks much.
 

ntino

Guru Class Expert
Apr 29, 2008
104
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did you submerge the guage? they are not water tight outside. They dont normally leak from the inside though.