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Help With PMDD Recipe & Routine

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by dawson29, Jul 15, 2008.

  1. dawson29

    dawson29 Junior Poster

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    Hi Guys

    I was hoping you could point me in the right direction. I cannot make my mind up what I need to order for my tank from Aqua Essentials UK based with regards to dry ferts.

    I would like somone to suggest a weekly routine and what to dose etc.

    I have looked at the examples on the site but I would like someones opinion on my own tank. Here are the Stats:

    Juwel Vision 180lt 39 UK Gallon
    Arcadia Overhead Luminere 4 WPG
    Denerlee Dupoint Substrate with sand on top.
    Under substrate Rena heater
    CO2 injected via a Spiro glass diffuser
    Fluval 304 external - surface agitated into CO2 diffused stream

    Parameters:

    Temp 75-77
    KH - 5-6 Degs
    NO2 - 0 ppm
    Ammonia - 0 ppm
    NO3 - 10 ppm
    PO4 - 5.0 this is my actual tap water
    PH - 6.8 -7.0
    Fe - Cannot remember last reading but I know it's low.

    Plants - range from Hygros, Tiger lotus, Crypts, Dwarf Sag, Ferns etc.

    Why don't you dose Mg anymore with regards to the tank routines? Does GH booster contain Mg?

    I was going to buy:

    Potassium Nitrate, Chelated Trace Mix, GH Booster, Potassium Sulphate, Monoptassium Phosphate. Do I need Mg as well?

    Please could somone suggest a weekly routine to get me started with all doses stated in dry measures i.e. 1/32 tsp etc.

    Thank you very much

    Paul
     
  2. rich815

    rich815 Guru Class Expert

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    Got any fish in there? Or plan to?
     
  3. dawson29

    dawson29 Junior Poster

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    Hi yes we have a community tank of Tetras, Platys, Clowns and Bristlenoses.
     
  4. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    This thread may prove useful.

    http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/4451-dosing-pmdd-vs-ei-plan-macros-then-micros-sfbaaps.html?highlight=PMDD

    I am not familiar with PMDD, but you may want to go the EI route instead.

    This thread disusses PMDD and EI.

    http://www.barrreport.com/co2-aquatic-plant-fertilization/3205-fertilizer-routines-one.html

    Also, at 4wpg, you will need to ensure a consistent good supply of c02. Do you have a drop checker filled with 4dh water?

    That is a lot of light and you may want to think of a way to reduce it when desired if plant growth proves more than you want.

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
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  6. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
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    Wow, you are fast Gerry or I'm slow:)
     
  7. dawson29

    dawson29 Junior Poster

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    Hi Guys

    I have a CO2 long term indicator which is green.

    I have a Dennerle CO2 system with plenty of CO2.

    Thanks for the links I will give them a read. I'm not to good with all the scientific stuff though.

    Paul
     
  8. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Just lucky I think. :D

    Paul,

    You already made it harder thinking this going into it :)

    It is just dosing dry or liquid fertilizers several times a week and a weekly water change.

    It is easier than you think.

    and is it filled with TANK water? If so, it is pretty useless that way. Let us know, so we can send you ANOTHER thread link lol.
     
  9. Chiya

    Chiya Prolific Poster

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    Hi Paul,

    I'm using a Dennerle CO2 'drop checker' too.
    Apparently it's too slow to display the correct CO2 concentration in the tank.
    My observations are that it displays a lime green during lights on and changes to a dark green color during lights off. (my CO2 is switched off 1 hour after lights off)

    I still get some BGA so we are suspecting CO2 is the problem.

    I'm currently reading up on DIY drop checkers. (4dkh de-ionised water)
    Maybe you'd like to consider it too.

    Regards,
    Ryan
     
  10. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    Most drop checkers take about 2 hours to play catch up. It is normal for it to be dark blue or dark green when no c02 is infused, based on the ph solution used.
     
  11. dawson29

    dawson29 Junior Poster

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    Hi Ryan & Gerry

    I have noticed the drop checker is a bit slow too. I'm currently trying to get the correct level of CO2 in my tank after I upped the surface agitation. I keep tweeking the bubble counter to allow a few more.

    I started on 18 bubbles per minute which according to Dennerle's formula was correct. I then have to allow for surface agitation so I'm adding more. Currently at 25 bubbles per minute and it's still a darkish green so I reckon I will have to add more.

    Paul
     
  12. dawson29

    dawson29 Junior Poster

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    Yes Gerry it is filled with tank water, is this incorrect?
     
  13. Chiya

    Chiya Prolific Poster

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    Hi Paul,

    May I direct you to Hoppy's thread.

    http://www.barrreport.com/articles/2661-drop-checkers-co2-indicators-why-how.html

    It's a very well written article on how drop checkers work / why we use them.
    I've learnt a lot from the thread and I'm constantly re-reading it to see what I've missed.

    Welcome To UKaps - CO2 Measurement Using A Drop Checker

    This is another one from a fellow forumer (from the user ID) posting in another site. Very informative also.

    P.S. I did a DIY drop checker and the results are different from the Dennerle drop checker. 1 color code difference in fact.

    Regards,

    Ryan
     
  14. dawson29

    dawson29 Junior Poster

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    Hi Guys

    I will look into a new drop checker as soon as the boss ups my pocket money:)

    Could someone please suggest a routine for dry dosing please as my ferts have turned up.

    This is my example.

    40-60 Gallon Aquariums

    Day 1 - 50% water change, 1/2 teaspoon KNO3; 1/8 teaspoon KH2PO4
    3/4 tsp GH booster once a week(water change only)

    Day 2 - 10ml Trace Elements

    Day 3 - 1/2 tsp KNO3; 1/8 tsp KH2PO4

    Day 4 - 10ml Trace Elements

    Day 5 - 1/2 tsp KNO3; 1/8 tsp KH2PO4

    Day 6 - 10 ml Trace Elements

    Day 7 ?

    What happens at day 7? Does the tank get a day off?

    Is that routine a good enough one?

    Thanks

    Paul
     
  15. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hey Paul,

    Yes it is an issue. I am unfamiliar with the Dennerle type, but a drop checker is only accurate if the quality/chemical makeup of the water is known.

    In any tank water this is virtually impossible.

    Please get a drop checker as soon as possible. Unless you can at least have an idea of your c02 ppm value, you will have issues and think they may be light or EI related, when many issues are c02 related (I sound like Tom a bit, I know, but it is true nonetheless).

    Even a DC is not as accurate as we would like, but is reasonably accurate.

    Reading the threads on drop checkers that Ryan provided should give you the better explanation.......

    Yes, your dosing sounds okay to start with. Keep in mind that EI is meant to be ADJUSTABLE to your tank conditions. High light and c02, mean more nutrient need, Less = less. Plant growth also plays a part, more plants=more nutrients.

    Day 7 IS a day of rest for the tank AND YOU as well, where nothing happens except to sit back and enjoy your effort!

    Hope this helps.
     
  16. dawson29

    dawson29 Junior Poster

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    Hi Gerry

    Thanks for your reply. I will try to convince the missus that we need a drop checker LOL!

    The Dennerle one is not to bad. The problem is I think there is only one place in the UK at the moment that sells 4DKH water and that's Aqua Essentials. I can purchase the drop checker no problem.

    I will give the routine a go when my smidgen, dash & pinch spoon set turns up for all those tricky 1/8 measures.

    I will post my results.

    Thanks

    Paul
     
  17. dawson29

    dawson29 Junior Poster

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    Hi guys

    I have been adding dry ferts according to the recipe for about 2 weeks now. I have some slight hair algae on some of my plants. If I'm honest I would say it was there before I started dosing.

    Any ideas on how to get rid of it? Do I tweak my recipe for dry ferts?

    Prior to adding dry fert I was adding leaf zone after every water change and CO2 injected as usual.

    Also would a UV light source affect my fertiliser? I have been using one for a few years.

    Thanks

    Paul

    PS have attached a picture of the tank.

    DSC_0092.JPG
     
  18. ccLansman

    ccLansman Guru Class Expert

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    the thread alge is typically due to excess nutrients but should be easy to control and remove. Proper lghts and enough healthy plants should out compete the stuff. Some websites recommend dosing Fe into the soil so the alge cant intake it. Also raising your potassium levels is said to help.
     
  19. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hi,
    Sorry but these statements are not valid. Nutrients cannot cause algae. The appearance of hair algae is most closely associated with poor CO2 for the given lighting level. Furthemore , plants do not compete with algae for nutrients. These are bogus concepts which are completely contrary to the principles of EI, which is based on providing unlimited nutrient levels at all times.

    Hobbyists who "...dose Fe into the soil so that algae can't intake it..." are likely doomed to continue algae woes since there is absolutely no correlation between Fe and the triggering of algae.

    I would increase the CO2 injection rate and ensure high levels of all nutrients in order to deal with the hair algae.

    Cheers,
     
  20. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    If you already have an issue with algae and do not correct that.........then you add more nutrients, sometimes you will see more algae, but still never address the root problem or get rid of it.

    Still, it's the first step is dealing with why you have algae and more importantly, poor plant growth.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
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