This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

help with my tank

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by adam mcisaac, Jul 15, 2009.

  1. adam mcisaac

    adam mcisaac Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    name is adam,i have set up a 55 gallon planted tank about 2 months ago. these are the specs.

    lights....4 65 watt 6700k coralifes ten hours day

    compressed co2 with homeade diffuser

    penguin bio wheels

    substrate red florite and small gravel.

    plants....anibus barti,penny wort,amazon sword,micro sword,horn wort,ludwigia repens,and 2 more stem plant.

    ferts are.....csm+b..........5 ml at 50% water change then 1 ml every other day.

    kno3 at 10 to 20 ppm

    root tabes under plants

    my plants are doing poorly,new growth if any only lasts maybe 5 days until it turns brown. micro sword is growing well but new growth turns brown within a couple of days. lower leafes on my repens turns brown with a slimy residue that i have to wipe of every couple of days. horn wort is brown not bright green like it was when i bought it. penny wort is turning yellow around the edges and small holes. i can go on and on but i'll start there. any help would be great..........also green alga on the glass
     
  2. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    Short answer:

    Use 1/2 the light you are now

    Find a better method to distribute your CO2, get a drop checker to help learn how to observe CO2 in your plants.

    Make sure your biowheel isn't splashing. Get a canister if you can (rena's XP series is good for entry level), even a powerhead will help. Get the water moving around the tank.

    Get your ferts adjusted: http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/62-estimative-index-dosing-no-need-test-kits.html

    Long answer:

    Your lighting is too high for your nutrient levels, which will starve your plants while specific algaes will take advantage of certain deficiencies. You are showing at least 3 deficiencies in your plants right now.

    With these nutrients, CO2 comes along too. It is the hardest nutrient to fulfill, and the most difficult to measure accurately. If your CO2 is deficient, your plants will not grow fast enough, which means algae will out-compete your plants. Keeping CO2 levels high, and the CO2 well distributed is a matter of both turning up the needle valve, and making sure that the CO2 is well distributed.

    Accomplishing good current will help to distribute nutrients, and can be combined with distributing the CO2. Some people put a filter output near a diffuser, some use a needle wheel modded internal filter (my favorite right now), others use CO2 reactors. Avoid the old bell systems if you can.

    HOB filters are often in contradiction with using CO2. Water is drawn up from lower down, then laid out on the surface; sometimes splashed. This will cause your CO2 to gas off far more easily. Most often the issue is with DIY CO2 since it has a limited output. You can substitute by simply turning up the CO2.

    With the drop checker, be sure to use 4dKH solution. It will make it so that your target solution color is set for 30ppm vs 15-20ppm. Don't be afraid if it turns yellow, so long as the fish are still doing fine. Should the fish end up at the surface gasping, turn the CO2 down to somewhere between the previous point and where you are now, unplug the solenoid temporarily, then gas the CO2 off some with an air pump.

    Following EI as it's shown through the link will do you well enough to get you started for now. As with the lighting, I'm sure you'll have questions that we'll be happy to clarify. Your algae problems should be fixed between EI, light reduction and higher CO2 levels. GSA on the glass is something you can get a magfloat for, or increase your PO4.

    Outside of that, ask what about what ever pops in to your head. I'd advise learning by reading what Tom posts, especially the stickied threads. Odds are his past work will give you better answers than I will. If that doesn't do it, everyone here should be happy to clarify. I'll keep an eye on this thread.

    After getting all of this down, when in doubt, CO2 is your problem.

    -Philosophos
     
  3. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    I will go a step further than Philosophos and say get rid of the hang-on-back (HOB) filter. For whatever reasons, in the US are hooked on HOBs. In my evil plant monster opinion, they cause more problems than they solve.

    I like canister filters just split the intake and output. I am partial to surface skimming intake on one end of the tank with deep-water output on the other end, preferably in concert with CO2 delivery.

    I would also recommend one or more circulation pumps, intake deep on the same end as the canister filter’s intake with output delivered via tubing to the other end deep and moving through the CO2 delivery.

    Use other pumps, power heads or my personal favorite the small, cheap self-contained submersible filters for problem areas. Make sure the general direction of flow for these devices are with the flow of your larger pumps (pointed toward the intakes).

    With large water changes on a regular basis, in a planted aquarium I rarely use any filter material.

    Biollante
     
  4. cggorman

    cggorman Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    May 9, 2009
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    Holy supernova Batman!
     
  5. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    They're popular because people in the US focus on fish over plants. They're also cheaper. For new keepers, they look less likely to leak as well. In truth, I've had to mop up more water from HOB overflows than I have from any canister leak.

    -Philosophos
     
  6. adam mcisaac

    adam mcisaac Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    thanks for all the info

    Hey Thanks For All The Info,i Will Start To Work It All Out. What Kind Of Co2 Diffuser Should I Buy,my Homemade One Sucks. Is Ther A Good Web Site To Look At?
     
  7. adam mcisaac

    adam mcisaac Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    So I Read Threw The Estimative,it Was To Much For Me To Figure Out Right Now. What Would Be A Good Dosing Rate To Start With Assuming I Get The Co2 Problem Solved?

    Thanks Adam
     
  8. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    Hi Adam,

    As I mentioned before I am new to this EI stuff, so for hows and whys I’ll leave that to the smart folk.

    I have more than (oh, how could it be) 50 years of fish keeping experience and have been messing with various aquatic and bog plants for most of those years.
    I will tell you I think these folks are on to something. A little tightly wrapped, some here may be, but they are doing good basic science. We can learn a lot.

    You have a nice tank, you seem diligent; you will be successful. It is a good-looking tank. A bit of an algae problem, make adjustments it will work.

    Remember to have fun!

    From http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/2819-ei-light-those-less-techy-folks.html

    I found:
    40-60 Gallon Aquariums
    +/- 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week
    +/- 1/8 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
    +/- 3/4 tsp GH booster once a week(water change only)
    +/- 1/8 (10ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
    50% weekly water change

    I guess I would start with this.

    I started two weeks in one of my 55-gallon tanks, using roughly half a teaspoon of PMDD every other day and three-fourths a teaspoon of Barr’s GH booster once a week.

    I have been incredibly pleased so for and will likely begin dosing everyone next month (currently also dosing a two, ten and 20 gallon tank).

    I have long believed in big water changes and meeting the nutritional needs of my plants and critters by over supply. Large water changes allow me to ‘get away’ with over stocking and over feeding.

    Biollante
     
  9. lljdma06

    lljdma06 Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    That is wierd. I have never had that problem with my HOBs, which are in planted tanks. Maybe I am just lucky, 15 years lucky.
     
  10. adam mcisaac

    adam mcisaac Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    So I Should Quit Dosing The Csm+b??

    Adam
     
  11. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    Adam,

    I think the CSM+b would be the '+/- 1/8 (10ml) Trace Elements 3x a week', above.

    -Biollante
     
  12. adam mcisaac

    adam mcisaac Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    Yeah I Figured That Out Stupid Question.

    Thanks For The Help I Am Excited To See What Happens?

    Adam
     
  13. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,673
    Likes Received:
    622
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    Adam,

    This poster has been around the block a few times. This is not likely some thing they have not encountered or something similar in the past at some level.

    I do not take credit for the method "EI".
    It's just a concept that folks have been using for likely centuries with lakes, ponds etc and at least a century for aquarium keeping.

    => Take out excess with water changes, add food back.

    Whether for plants, or fish...or both, matters little, same idea either way.

    All we do is a water change and then dose 3-4 things.
    That's "it"... simplified into one short sentence.
    Dosing is honestly very easy.

    Once you have done it a few times, it becomes "old hat" rather fast.
    Boring pretty much.

    Where most of the effort and energy go is into things like good flow patterns, light height, intensity, and mostly getting good CO2 and having that tweaked.
    The above are universal for all methods of dosing and why all dosing methods have good examples of nice tanks and bad examples where there's lots and lots of algae.

    It's not just a function of dosing in other words.

    Some like to imply this.

    So.......all I have to do is show that when there are no limiting factors for nutrients, there's no algae, then their hypothesis quickly falls apart.

    EI does this and set a rather high light and CO2 ppm level as a start point.
    This way there are never any limiting nutrients and it's easy to maintain this concentration.

    Then you can mess with CO2, flow, light etc instead.
    Light is very stable and easy to control, can be tested etc with meters.
    This just leaves CO2 and cleaning, filters, flow etc, but mostly just CO2.

    The goal here is to make it simple, reduce the number of variables so we can focus on the hobby aspects like gardening plants, which is what most started out wanting to do.

    Not learn chemistry, 101 ways to kill algae, learn how to use water test kits, abstract stuff. It's good to know, but it is hardly a requirement.

    Cooking has chemicals too, but we think quite differently about that, but it's the same type of thing here. Add 1/4 teaspoon 2-3x a week etc. As long as you know what it is, folks can tell you the ranges and help.

    After a few goes, you'll have it down pretty easily.
    I was the same as yourself years ago.

    I really did not want to get all into that, just add some commercial stuff from a bottle a few times a week etc. Making my own ferts from the raw stuff seemed a bit hokey too. But it's the same and you save a huge amount of $$$.

    You still add something a few times a week, you just save a ton and the cost really goes to zero after that for ferts. Gas tank CO2 is the other thing to invest in and just bite the bullet.

    You'll be glad you did for DIY ferts and for Gas tank CO2.






    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  14. adam mcisaac

    adam mcisaac Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    gh booster

    hey what gh booster should i get? i am looking at barrs or green leafs? green leafs has iron and manganise in it and barrs doesn't? also why why would someone use pmdd?

    adam
     
  15. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    Adam,

    I would like to hear your thoughts first:
    1. Which GH Booster would be better for your situation? Think about your other dosing decisions. You might even wish to take into account your host.
    2. What advantages might PMDD offer?

    After I see your answers I will give you the reasons for my decisions.

    Biollante
     
  16. jeff5614

    jeff5614 Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    Amen!........
     
  17. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,673
    Likes Received:
    622
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    Green leaf's Fe and Mg/or Mn(?) is a trace, not a GH additive.

    You can get it from Green leaf I think(Gh booster), or aquariumfertilizers.com

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  18. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    I've had most of my problems from adjusting the loads in these things. I don't like to just leave the recommended levels of filtration; I prefer a fine polishing layer of filter floss that removes some of the smaller debris. I find it reduces algae by eliminating bits of what could be, at times, ammonia leeching compounds.

    Tom, I think you give your self too little credit some times. I haven't seen anyone popularize the concept to create a simple algorithm that keeps plants non-limiting in their nutrients without testing.

    Yes, you've taken an old idea, but you've made it elegant in the sort of way every scientist and nerd looks for.

    -Philosophos
     
  19. adam mcisaac

    adam mcisaac Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    adam's reply

    well the first thing i will say is tom you are the real deal. thanks for answering my question.

    greg i feel you are trying to make me figure out things for my self. wich i understand why should you all hand me over years of hard work and knowledge on a silver platter. how can i appreciate something witch takes no discipline to attain? i know about discipline and what it takes to attain it. check out my work at stoningtongallery.com search adam mcisaac.

    anyway. i do not really know what all these ferts do for the plants. it is still a bit confusing still. i thought the whole idea of a forum was to make friends and get help with problems. i know i sound stupid to all of you but i got alot on my plate right now besides the tank. i am 36 years old raising 3 kids and trying to remodel a one bed room house i built so my kids have there own room. i don't know what to say i f you don't want to answer stupid questions and advocate this hobby thats fine by me i will just have to take longer to get the tank going.

    on another note i don't know what pmdd is for it has some of the same fets i already use in it . i dont understand 10 ml. of trace elements to 1/8 tsp what can i mix up a bach and inject it ? or do i measure up a 1/8 tsp and poor it in? that is what i did today.

    anyway my tank looks better with e light reduction.

    thanks for all the help
    adam
     
  20. adam mcisaac

    adam mcisaac Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:25 PM
    one more thing

    all i wanted ws to make some friends to talk with about all this stuff....?????
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice