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Help on some basic chemistry...

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by euripides6996, Jul 22, 2005.

  1. euripides6996

    euripides6996 Junior Poster

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    Hi there and apologies in advance. When going through the Krib, PlantGeek, the Barr Report, et cetera, I appear to be missing some very basic chemistry/math skills. For example, I'm interested in using EI but I'm at a loss as to where the concentrations for the sample dosing schedule came from. I've re-read the article 3 or 4 times now and I'm still not getting it.

    How do you calculate dosing levels over a seven day period from target ranges?

    I feel immensly stupid for asking because everyone else seems to intuitively know how to do it and I haven't seen many posts/queries about basic math but I'd rather look stupid than end up just being stupid...

    Help! (and thanks in advance...)

    Will
     
  2. Jay

    Jay Lifetime Charter Member
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  3. weaverr3

    weaverr3 Junior Poster

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    Re: Help on some basic chemistry...

    Thats not a stupid question in my opinion. In fact, I have the same or at least a similar issue.

    We've been told in post after post what our acceptible limits are: NO3 @ 10-20ppm, PO4 @ .1 or .2 or so, etc... Well, does that mean if we dose 3 times a week, we divide 20ppm (NO3) by 3 equalling 6.7ppm and dose that each of those 3 days? Or perhaps we dose the full 20ppm each day and assume the plants consume enough to handle the excess? Or, what I'm figuring, somewhere in between but I don't really have a good feel yet for how far in between because I don't know my true uptake rates.

    Anyway, that has been my issue so far, perhaps someone could clarify for us slow folk. ;)

    Blake
     
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Help on some basic chemistry...

    It might help to think about it in terms of a weekly dosing routine.

    Add say weekly:

    30ppm of NO3
    30ppm K+
    3ppm of PO4
    15 mls of Traces (eg Tropouica master grow or SeaChem's "Flourish") per 20 gal of tank.

    If the GH is low, add some SeaChem Equilibrium after the water change to bring things to about 3 degrees or so.
    If the KH is low add baking soda to raise to 3 degrees or so.

    You can also add a touch of MgSO4, Epsom salt, say 1/8 teaspoon per week per 20 gal if the GH is sort of low after a water change.

    Main thing is the CO2 level.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  5. euripides6996

    euripides6996 Junior Poster

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    Re: Help on some basic chemistry...

    Okay - thanks. So, dosing macros and micros on alternate days, I just divide the macros by 4 and the micros by 3 and I'm off to the races? (Don't mean to be pedantic...)

    Thanks again,

    Will
     
  6. imatrout

    imatrout Prolific Poster

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    Re: Help on some basic chemistry...

    I have often been confused also. I think one of the contributors to my confusion is that the dosing is related to tank volume, not necessisarily to plant density or uptake. Would you add the recommended dosages to a tank with no plants in it? No. Would you add the recommended dosages to plants tanks that were overflowing? I don't know, because EI tends to dose so that nutrients never run out. Also, what kind of fish load do you have? Do you adjust EI for that?

    In all honesty, I am beginning to get ot dialed in. Typically I put the EI dose in on Sunday and don't add anything but micros until the next water change. The EI formula says I should be dosing the macros 3 times per week, but my combination of plants uptake and fish input never uses up the initial reset dose of macros as water change. Go figure.
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Help on some basic chemistry...

    EI assumes you have a fully planted tank.
    All methods for growing plants assume this.

    More plants and more from day one of the set up= more success and less algae.

    If you want to avoid that advice, don't blame the method when things don't go as well as you'd like.

    Many folks will add a few plants(not enough) and think they have a planted tank, want to add CO2 etc.

    If all you want are a few plants, then forget about CO2.
    It's very unlikely you need it.

    If you do not want CO2, well...........you do not need EI to begin with..........

    Therefore the advice stands.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  8. Ian H

    Ian H Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Help on some basic chemistry...

    How full is fully planted Tom? Here's the latest pic of my planted tank after a serious pruning session...............I'm trying to decide what to fill the gaps with. :)

    Ian

    ot4.jpg
     
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