HELP: Alternanthera ReineckiiI 'Rosaefolia'

jonny_ftm

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Hi,

I posted a few weeks ago about this problem and I was answered as it being CO2 issue under high light.



Since then, I put my luminaire 12in instead of 3in height while keeping same EI doses, my CO2 is now stable with the drop test, I installed an AM 1000 instead of my internal CO2 passive diffuser and I added 2 small 80gph pumps. The output of the canister with AM 1000 is also directed towards the Alternanthera ReineckiiI and they're all moving slowly

The Alternanthera ReineckiiI planted group is divided as this:
- rear part, exposed to light
- front part colmpletely covered by thick layer of flowting Ceratophyllum and Salvinia Minima.

Sadely, all the Alternanthera ReineckiiI plants show these same symptoms, the front and rear groups as the top/bottom leaves. New leaves are fine, only older ones are affected as they get 2-3rd old generation leaves. I also begun adding some Dennerle E15 (chelated Fe+Mn pills) to increase the Fe since TPN comes with very little. Have to yet see the results of this Fe addition in next days/weeks

Any help will be appreciated
 

Philosophos

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EI + high co2 with decent light should keep it doing well. Clearly something is not within parameters. Do you have a drop checker in there by chance?

Maybe phosphorous with those low leaf pinholes, but I always see phosphorous. Fe seems likely too; I see a touch of chlorosis if I'm not mistaken.

-Philosophos
 

jonny_ftm

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Philosophos;37053 said:
Do you have a drop checker in there by chance?

Yes, I mentioned it in my first post. CO2 starting 3h before light to be on the safe side, that is lime green when light turns on

Maybe phosphorous

1.2ppm 3 times /week, it's just more than enough.

Fe is now kept between 0.2-0.4ppm since few days using E15 chelated Fe/Mn . It was just about 0.1 with dosing 3x15ml TPN
 

Philosophos

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Lime green is better than green, some people have to go with solid yellow at peak times of the day; I've had to. hows the distribution look? Any dead spots? If you're using a reactor you can always check with a difusor temporarily to at least see where the flow is going.

Sorry, not phosphorous, I meant to say potassium; old growth pinholes is a potassium deficiency symptom. The phosphorous could also go up without much harm; plant uptake may be starving it out a little, but I wouldn't say it's vital.

Sounds like your iron is heading up in to healthy levels, hopefully the plants will start to respond on that issue.

-Philosophos
 

Tom Barr

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That's a sensitive CO2 plant.

More so than most.

It grows nice and healthy , even with low nutrients if the CO2 is good and stable.
Add a little BBA, and that's classic poor CO2.


Regards,
Tom Barr
 

VaughnH

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Tom Barr;37062 said:
That's a sensitive CO2 plant.

More so than most.

It grows nice and healthy , even with low nutrients if the CO2 is good and stable.
Add a little BBA, and that's classic poor CO2.


Regards,
Tom Barr

But, reduce the light intensity a bit and the CO2 may well be just fine then. 4-54 watt T5 bulbs on that tank will be hard to get down to a reasonable intensity without a lot of light spill over. Keep only two of the bulbs lit at one time and the problem probably goes away.
 

jonny_ftm

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Tom Barr;37062 said:
Add a little BBA, and that's classic poor CO2.

How did you guess!! :eek:



It's only on my wood, I don't touch it and it never grew outside the wood. Some spots on gravel and glass that I quiet never remove and are self limited.

Do you think a wood can really be BBA free on the long run?


VaughnH;37065 said:
But, reduce the light intensity a bit and the CO2 may well be just fine then. 4-54 watt T5 bulbs on that tank will be hard to get down to a reasonable intensity without a lot of light spill over. Keep only two of the bulbs lit at one time and the problem probably goes away.

VaughnH, I'm finally willing to follow your advice.
Here's the tank how it looks now. I pruned it heavily and badly+added 3 new plants to replace my old ones, so it doesn't look great now. My Rotala W. and Pogostemon Stellatus were planted less than one week ago and didn't grew enough yet to enhance the aspect.



The red arrows on the right show pump outlets and there's a third one in the rear bottom, behind the wood directed along the rear glass surface. The white one is the AM 1000 outlet by the way.

My Pogostemon Helferi, doesn't carpet as I liked, despite it being exposed to full light: they grow in height rather more than I'd like (planted only 2 weeks ago too)



Now, what do you advice me please:
- Turn off 2 of the 4x54W bulbs while keeping the height at the actual 12" or lowering my luminaire to about 3"?

- Don't you think my P. Helferi will worsen its growth in height that way?

- Is it advised or not to use a burst period, like 3-4h with the 4 bulbs and the remaining period with only 2?

Many thanks for your advice
 

SuperColey1

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Don't thing of the PH being high light. Think of it as being high CO2.

I fear the CO2 isn't getting distributed very well especially at the bottom of the tank. This is a classic trouble with high plantmass like yours.

As for can wood stay BBA free? I have always used wood and can definately say I haven't seen BBA for more than a year ;)

AC
 

jonny_ftm

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Thanks for the precisions.

I'll definately lower the light so and decrease plant mass by the way. Less work too and suerely easier later to aquascape it a little at least.

What about the alternatives?
  1. Turn off 2 of the 4x54W bulbs while keeping the height at the actual 12" or lowering my luminaire to about 3"?
  2. Don't you think my P. Helferi will worsen its growth in height that way?
  3. Is it advised or not to use a burst period, like 3-4h with the 4 bulbs and the remaining period with only 2?

Thank you again for guiding me. Not so evident when some one starts
 

VaughnH

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I think I would just turn off 2 of the lights, and run 2 - 54 watt T5HO lights for awhile. But, I would spend most of my effort trying to greatly improve the CO2 concentration and distribution.

I have been neglecting my tank for over a month now, being totally absorbed in making a new LED light fixture, and, as a result the Koralia powerhead which was providing lots of surface ripple for me, started to lose flow capability, due to debis blocking the openings in the rotor "cage", and probably due to needing a good cleaning in general. I lost a couple of fish as a result, and I have had to reduce my CO2 a little to stop the losses. All because, in my opinion, the loss of surface ripple reduced the availablilty of oxygen in the water. I say this to support my recommendation that you make sure you maintain some light rippling of the water all over the water surface, before trying to increase the CO2 bubble rate.

And, that surface ripple can come from a Koralia or other propeller type powerhead which will be helping keep all parts of the tank supplied with CO2 all the time.

If that produces good results, then you could try lowering the light fixture again to see if that makes things better, or worse.
 

jonny_ftm

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Many thanks again for the directions.

Just a last question: what's the general trend about this burst period, using intense light for a short 3-4h period and lower light for the remaining time? Can the plants benefit from it?