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Help algae problem....

Discussion in 'Algae Control' started by doublej, Jan 22, 2006.

  1. doublej

    doublej Junior Poster

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    Hi,
    I just joined this forum thx to AQ's link which brought me to the EI and i subscribed to this forum... =)
    ermm... i have some algae problem...

    my tank is only 1 1/2 months old...
    but i didn't know abt EI till last week...
    so as expected, i screwed up the initial tank and i algaes...

    I'm infected with BBA, staghorn/hair algae??? Its thready and green spot algae @ the glass...
    how do i get rid of it???
    BBA grows on my "uncovered" driftwood... the bare surface are infected with bba and even some on my moss... i tried to take it out and scrub it away and apply some exel on it... but after a few days it stills come back...
    well and my E tennellus and some other plants have been infected with hair/staghorn algae...

    so how do i remove them???

    my tank is 4x1.5x1.5 ft @25degree C
    which is around 200l
    with 144W of FL lighting duration of 3 hours (rest 3 hours) and turned on for 5 hours total of 8 hours
    running of co2 with solenoid and its around 3bps... using internal reactor with a fast flowrate pump which causes the misting effect...

    my tank bubbles like crazy but i just dont know how to dfeal with my algaes...

    im dosing of
    5ppm of magnesium
    12ppm of NO3
    16.7ppm of K
    0.4 of FEdta

    so what should i do??? thx alot
     
  2. Simpte

    Simpte Prolific Poster

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    Re: Help algae problem....

    Prune infected plant leaves. From my experience, bba grows on slow growing plants and will not grow when Co2 is ~30ppm. Good levels of Co2 will not kill it though, just halt expansion. A bleach dip will also work. I use 29 parts water to 1 part bleach instead of the typical 20:1. Allows me more leeway when dipping the plants. Works well for me. If you don't get the co2 levels up it will come back no matter what you do. Be sure to bleach infected decorations and scrub wood well. I would also leave the lights on for 8-10 hrs straight instead of turning them off for a rest period.
     
  3. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Help algae problem....

    You also need phosphates - KH2PO4, for example, around one tenth as much as NO3. Increase the CO2 you inject a little bit each day, until you see the fish distressed, then back off a bit. That will be the maximum or the correct dosage of CO2 for you. Remember, CO2 is cheap!
     
  4. doublej

    doublej Junior Poster

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    Re: Help algae problem....

    i just bought kh2po4 up root all my E.T and bleach it and replanted it back...
    so i dose 1.2ppm of it??? since its 1/10th of the no3 im dosing???
    but i accidentally double dose it so its @ 2.38ppm is it alrite???
    and ermm... what should my dosing frequency be??? thx alot!!!
     
  5. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Help algae problem....

    I wouldn't worry about the higher po4 dose - 1 to 2 ppm is the range. Dose the macros 2 or 3 times a week and the micros on the in between days.
     
  6. doublej

    doublej Junior Poster

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    Re: Help algae problem....

    hmm...
    okie so i have to dose 2 to 3 times a week???
    lets say i dose 2 times....
    so eg... saturday i do water change..
    so i add all the
    macro
    micro
    pottasium sulphate
    potassium nitrate
    po4
    magnesium sulphate to the desired ppm all @ 1 go right??

    so this is considered 1 dose???

    then the second dose do i dose the full amount i dose during water change or lesser then that??? and also wat is considered macro and wat is micro???

    as i have a bot of macro a bot of micro...
    but i have kno3 k2so4 po4 and mgso4 to buffer to the desired ppm...
    thx alot!!!
     
  7. doublej

    doublej Junior Poster

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    Re: Help algae problem....

    hi i am dosing
    5ppm of magnesium
    12ppm of NO3
    16.7ppm of K
    0.4 of FEdta
    1.2 PO4 on 30% water change day
    and in the mid week i am dosing
    1/2 dosage of water chnge dose...
    but to my horror...
    i find more blacky stuffs tat looks like bba
    its just black dots on my ET...
    very puzzled...
    is my dosage wrong or are there any other factors???
    my co2 is ard 30ppm and pearling is received after a few hours of lights
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator Social Group Admin

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    Re: Help algae problem....

    Here you go, add the following:

    KNO3: 1/2 teaspoon 3x a week
    KH2PO4: 1/8 teaspoon 3x a week
    Traces: 15mls 3x a week (try using Tropica master grow if you can find it)
    MgSO4: 1/2 teaspoon, 1-2x a week

    Weekly 50% water change.
    That's mostly going to be it.

    You may be able to do 2x a week, the same amounts above if you have a larger fish load.

    If you see new BBA growth, add more CO2.
    Kill any BBA that's there.
    Scrub walls, equipment etc, bleach items you can take out of the tank.

    What is your GH?
    You might consider a CaSO4/MgSO4 mix of the Gh is low.

    How are deciding the CO2 is 30ppm and that it is stable?
    I think you may want to ignore the test kit/method right now and add more CO2.

    You need to make sure you have some surface movement, a slight ripple, you can always add more CO2. This will allow degassing if the ppm gets too high for fish.

    Herbivores: SAE's, Amano shrimps are very good. The more shrimp, the better.
    SAE's will eat Rotala wallichii though and they can get big later, but are very useful for BBA.

    You need to do a fair amount work to get the tank back into shape, do not give up though, after it's back in shape, things will be much easier.

    Most people go through algae battles. But today they do not last long and people are much better at addressing long term solutions in a consistent and effective manner.

    They had no idea what caused BBA when I started posting in 1996 nor most any algae for that matter.

    You'll feel a lot more comfortable after you prune and get use to what can be done and you will learn patience, but you will be rewarded if you stick it out.

    You can always attack algae by pruning, scrubbing anything not bolted down, rotating gravel top to bottom (*if infested*), and repeated water changes. Note: attacking algae good, then in 1-2 hours doing a water change is useful as well. I clean, harass algae etc good and then do a water change at the end. Do not skip that part, algae release spores when you attack them, these settle elsewhere and grow, if you do a water change asap after, then you remove many of these and weaken the new spores, which are much more vulnerable than adults.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  9. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Help algae problem....

    If BBA is starting, as it seems to be, you can be pretty sure you are low on CO2, or your CO2 is not the same every day. You could have a dead fish "hiding" some where too, giving you high spikes of ammonia. I really think you need to increase the CO2 you are injecting.
     
  10. doublej

    doublej Junior Poster

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    Re: Help algae problem....

    okie thx for the reply...
    btw the traces element i got is from lush grow dr mallicks...
    and the recommended dose is by drops... which i over dose it @ 2ml
    do i really add 15 ml??? as my bottle of trace is only 50ml
    as 1 ml of traces would give me
    0.1062ppm of iron
    0.0284ppm of manganese
    0.0024ppm of boron
    0.003ppm of copper
    0.0023ppm of molybdenum

    i'll test for my gh later...
    as i'm staying in singapore the ph of tap water is ard 7-7.2

    and my co2 is only turn on by solenoid 1/2 hour b4 lighting period and switched off @ 1/2 hour b4 the lighting period ends

    and mine is a shirmp tank with ard 50 tiger shrimps, 40 cheery, 20 malayan and 3 bee shrimps...
    only 4 otos as saes eats my shirmps.... :(

    i'll try to increase my co2.... btw i am using a 2000l flow rate pump which runs into my chiller to my internal reactor... i left 1 bio ball inside the reactor so that it can have a little misting effect....
    i'll try with the new dosage and see how =)
    btw... KNO3: 1/2 teaspoon 3x a week
    KH2PO4: 1/8 teaspoon 3x a week
    Traces: 15mls 3x a week (try using Tropica master grow if you can find it)
    MgSO4: 1/2 teaspoon, 1-2x a week

    its okie to be added all @ 1 shot???

    oh... is the traces... macros??? as i am abit confused with it... thx alot as i have macros and micros

    15ml of macros in my tank would give me
    Element Name Composition (g/L) ppm
    N Nitrogen 7.179 0.53843
    NO3 Nitrates 31.793 2.38446
    K Potassium 51.711 3.87833
    S Sulphur 16.667 1.25003
    Mg Magnesium 2.942 0.22065
    Fe EDTA Iron EDTA 1.683 0.12623
    Mn Manganese 0.612 0.04590
    B Boron 0.314 0.02355
    Zn Zinc 0.092 0.00690
    Cu Copper 0.025 0.00188
    Mo Molybdenum 0.016 0.00120

    15ml of micros would give me
    Element Name Composition (g/L) ppm
    Fe EDTA Iron EDTA 21.253 1.59398
    Mn Manganese 5.684 0.42630
    B Boron 0.483 0.03623
    Zn Zinc 0.617 0.04628
    Cu Copper 0.267 0.02003
    Mo Molybdenum 0.471 0.03533



    thanks alot!!!
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Help algae problem....

    I'm familar with Dr Mallick's.

    For a 70 gal tank, adding 15mls 2-3x a week of a trace(Tropica master grow, Flourish, Sera etc) is standard.

    I've added nearly 700mls of Flourish by accident for 3 days before doing a water change, no fish or shrimp issues. Sio I think anyone's fear about copper and traces causing issues seem unwarranted, I've added 30mls 3-4x a week to a same sized tank with issue.

    I doubt that the Dr Mallick product is really that much more concentrated.
    For standard SG water, you will do well to add some GH builder, about 2 degrees worth of something like SeaChem equilibrium(A mix of CaSO4, MgSO4 and some K2SO4 mostly) after a water change.

    You dose the macros on one day, and the traces the following day.
    Or in the early part of the day and the traces at night etc.

    I'm not sure the actual equilvalents for Dr Mallicks stuff, like the trace micro elements.

    But...........I suggest using dry fertilizer instead for the macros, (NO3, PO4, GH, K+).

    This will put you on the same page and they cost less.
    TMG is available in SG also and has a better chelators than Dr Mallicks.
    Get 500mls or better yet, get a 5 liter jug of TMG, this is the same as the micronutrients(Fe, Zn, Mn, Cu, B mostly).

    You might ask Peter Gwee about them Dr Mallick Micros and macros.
    I've told folks in SG many times this same advice and it's worked well.

    I've suggesting less NO3 in the routine because you have so many shrimp and adding a fair amount of food also.

    Shrimp are pretty tolerant of high CO2.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  12. doublej

    doublej Junior Poster

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    Re: Help algae problem....

    okie.. thx alot...
    i'll try this method and try to get the TMG...

    i think shrimps R quite tolerant on co2 as i accidentally overdose co2 till it my ph test was 6ph and kh of 4... only a little casualties

    and i have dry ferts the kh2po4, mgso4,kno3,k2so4.. a macro bottle and a micro bottle which i'll ask petergwee on it.. thx alot
    so that means i need to get caso4 right???
    or i can just go off with adding sodium bicarbonate???
     
  13. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Help algae problem....

    Baking soda only adds KH, CaSO4(or you can use CaCl2 as well) and MgSO4 adds GH.

    Mix them at about 3:1 to 2:1 ratio(CaSO4+ /MgSO4) or so.

    Add about 1-2 degrees GH.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  14. doublej

    doublej Junior Poster

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    Re: Help algae problem....

    okie... after reading ur post again
    so that means adding SeaChem equilibrium will increase the GH??

    and btw...
    if i follow your dosage...
    readings will be
    2.02ppm for po4
    8.58ppm for no3
    5.42ppm for K
    and the 15ml of TMG

    so do i still need to add mgso4 and k2so4??? thx alot...

    and buffering of GH is only needed when i do wc?

    i'll be uprooting all my E.T & tonina again tomorrow and dip it into bleach soln
    taking out my bogwoods and scrub the visible areas that are infested with bba and do a WC of 50%

    hope i can get rid of the bba :D
     
  15. doublej

    doublej Junior Poster

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    Re: Help algae problem....

    opps...
    guess i mis read again

    do i need to dose k2so4???
    or the K is enough from dosing of Kno3???

    i just removed all my ET as its found to be infested with algae...
    replaced with H.C
    bleach my tonina, boiled some of my driftwood and stones...
    btwi have a beloved driftwood on moss... it has bba
    possible that i do not boil it??? just remove visible bba???
    will it not spread???
     
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