Hard Plubming a water drain line

Hello all,

The helpful and informative replies to the water change thread, plus Tom's emphatic suggestion to go for it, have prompted me to explore hard plumbing a drain line. Don't tell my wife.

I will have a plumber install the line, and I have made appointment for someone to come over and have a look. I figured I'd ask everyone here if there are considerations I should think about, in terms of what to tell the plumber I want to achieve. So what do I need to know, what clever cosiderations are there?

My simple thinking for talking to the plumber was to just to

(1) identify where I want the drain line to come out of the wall (i.e., what spot on the wall within the room should the drain tube stick out from),

(2) specify a 1 or 1.5" line is to be used, and

(3) put in a check valve to make sure house waste water does not ever seep up the tank drain water tube.

I would then attach fittings to the plumbed drain tube sticking out of the wall that would allow me to hook a flex tube drain line from tank to the hard plumbed drain tube. Then turn on a hobby pump when I want to drain tank. If that's all there is, good. But hindsight is 20/20, so I invite suggestions more well thought out than my own.

Cheers,

"growitnow"
Bob

 

Tom, thanks.

But re: fill line. If a fill line is brought into the room through the wall, a kitchen or sink faucette would have to be attached to the line on the inside of the room, yes?

A whole sink fixture would not work in the room, so I'm not sure what my options are for what kind of fixture needs to be inside the room to permit mixing hot and cold. I had been prompted to explore a drain line only, but you are right - if I'm putting in a drain line it would make sense to complete the picture with a fill line also.

What I remain curious on is, in these applications where plumbing is brought to rooms of a home where such plumbing ordinarily would be out of place, what type of fixture (for the fill line) will protrude into the room? Or what kinds of fixtures suit this purpose but remain low profile and don't require an entire sink.

Of course the answer is "any kind you can buy at the hardware store - it's your house", but a sink faucet sticking out of a spare room wall seems odd so I'm curious how people handle this.

"growitnow"
Bob

 

edacsac & Tom:
Recessed vavle box great idea. We have one in laundry room, I had not thought of that.

Vaughn:
I have not heard of a "shower valve" that maintains stable water temperature, but that is a VERY useful suggestion. Plumber is coming this afternoon and I will ask about that.

Last night I went to hardware store looking at faucets & valves, I did not see any hot+cold valves that were particularly low profile. Those I saw were the large jeweled shower or tub knobs, perhaps the plumber will have options or I can find something online.

Good suggestions, thanks.


"growitnow"
Bob

 

vidiots:
Very good information. Let me summarize my understanding of your set up, then ask a few questions.

You have a hot line in, and a cold line in. These two lines go to your shower head. Shower head ouput goes to sump. Sump has overflow. Overflow goes to wastewater out.

1) How do you regulate temperature of water in. Do you have a standard single-knob water mixer that you have to adjust each time you fill (as in most bathtubs or showers); or, do you have the 'constant temperature' shower valve?

2) The overflow design is really great. "What if it overflows?" is not a trivial issue regardless of adequate safechecks put in place. Having overflow go to a bonafide drain line seems among the best 'safety' that I have seen.

In my case, the tank is on the ground floor, and positive pressure for draining (or exit of overflow water in set up such as yours) would be created by turning on a separate hobby pump. The idea of overflow going to waste water is very attractive. Any suggestions for how to approach the "fail safe" kind of system you have, given gravity may not be sufficient to carry drain water?

3) re: solenoids. I do not understand two aspects of the hot/cold mixing from solenoid use.

(a) Assuming there is a single solenoid from shower head output to sump:
If operating this solenoid which opens the line to water causes hot/cold water to be mixed throughout the house, this would imply that ANY time a shower head is used (e.g., for taking a shower in the bathroom) that the same problem would occur (hot and cold water would get mixed throughout the whole house).

(b) Assuming there is one solenoid for the hot line and one solenoid for the cold line, with each installed before the shower head:
Separate solenoids for hot and cold would not fix the issue. When both solenoids are operated, both lines are open, just as in the case above so the problem is the same.

Let me predict my own misunderstanding - which surely comes from both a lack of plumbing experience in the house, or on tanks. If the undersirable hot/cold mixing does NOT occur when the shower head output is flowing (because positive pressure from hot and cold lines do not permit hot water to go into the cold line);

then, the problem would only occur if the shower head is off, and there is only a single solenoid in the line between shower head output and the sum. But even in this case, what I don't get is why hot and cold input lines would be able to mix, if the shower head were in an off state, doesn't the shower head knob need to be in an "on/open" state to perimt either input line to flow?

Sorry for the long descriptions, plumber is coming today. Though I don't have to make a decision immediately, I seek a better understanding of options/issues so I can better describe to plumber what needs to be done.

Thanks, very helpful so far.

"growitnow"
Bob

 

As it turns out, the aquarium room is ajacent to my garage. The garage contains our water heater. I still haven't figured out the logistics of the actual fixtures, but I could have the hot and cold lines go to the temperature control valve, keeping that vavle in the garage. Then have the output of the temperature control valve come through a single pipe into the room.

If I install a recessed box, then there would be only 3 things in it. The end point shut off valve which is turned to bring water in from the shower valve in the garage, the actual water line in, then a water line out. The in and out would have quick disconnects, if I do not hard plumb water lines to the actual tank.



(example temperature control valves)
Shower Valves - Thermostatic - Keidel Bath, Plumbing, Kitchen - Cincinnati, OH

So, I would infer the volume control is the "open/closed" valve that allows water to flow, and the temp valve is the set-it-and-forget-it temperature valve.


(problem with Delta valves - hopefully resoved by now)
Delta Faucet Co. Recalls Bathtub and Shower Temperature Control Valves Due to Scald Hazard


If anyone is willing to share them, I would welcome email pics of your fixture set up, and the site on the wall where input lines come into the room. PM me and I'll respond with my email address if that is not already accessible.

I have found input so far quite valuable, but until I can see/hold a valve in hand I remain wondering how you actually seat these fixtures into the wall, and how the tubes from the wall get to the aquarium. In any event, thanks.

 

vidiots, very helpful, plus nice job.

In the Tap Water Supply pic:

So the breen bit is solenoid & p lug in pic = timer. When power goes to solenoid the green valve is opened and input water flows.

I think I now understand your hot/cold mixing issue seeing the pic. If the shower valve is left in the open position (which it would have to be for the solenoid to gate flow), then hot and cold input would be mixed. When the solenoid is off (green solenoid valve closed) positive pressure from hot in and cold in cause mixing. If the green solenoid valve were open the same positive pressure causes negligible mixing because the hot in & cold in have a place to go - the sump.

Is that a pressure-compensating shower valve, intended to maintain stable temperature? Or is it a "regular" shower valve that you have turned to achieve about right temp.

In the Sump & Overflow pic:

What is the purpose of the tall white PVC part and what is the back bit at its top. Is that what yoy meant by letting air in? If so, it would explain why the top of the tall PVC pipe is slightly higher than the water line in sump. Just talking out loud here to see if my understanding makes sense.

Your "P" trap pic is also important, to make sure if one is installing a water waste line. A "good plumber" would consider this standard fair but the responsibility to make sure everything is in place that should be is of course whoever is signing the cheque

I also was looking at VaughnH's old thread detailing his constant water change system (thanks for the ref, Vaughn).

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...ge-system.html

For others interested, I found this pressure compensating valve that is pretty low profile - but its lowest temperature ouput is too high for our use. If I can find similar products that have more flexibility in output temperature I will post it. I am no one's salespeson but these seem useful advances for aquarists.

Cash Acme - Products - Thermostatics - Heatguard® 145 Mini

 

Will deliver output temperature in the range of 75 degrees. Cost $213.

Leonard Valve Company - Product Details


Rep said that temperature output should be fairly stable, even when ambient temperature changes (when cold water in cold line is colder because of winter, or warmer because of summer).

I did learn that pressure compensating valves differ in mechanism, which is relevant to how low the low temp output can be. Wax element types need a greater temperature differential to work. This means when temperature outside is warmer and warms the cold water line it will be harder to get a lower termperature output.

Metal bivlavles (not robotic clams!) require only a 5-8% temperature differential to work, which means when hot water line cools or cool water lines warm because of seasonal temp changes, these valves will be better equipped to deliver ouput temperature in the range for aquarium use.