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Guru's i need urgent help! ! Downoi & Madagascar plant stunded/melting

Discussion in 'Are you new to aquatic plants? Start here' started by thong123, Jun 15, 2016.

  1. thong123

    thong123 Junior Poster

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    Hi Guru's on the planted tank universe, this is my 2nd attempt on Downoi. I failed miserably previously....hope to redeem myself this time but this battle i cant win alone.


    I need urgent advise on my tank and why are the Downoi & madagascar not growing well. Growth on my madagascar has been stunded for a month already, not growing bigger..


    As for the Downoi i feel its stunded/melting, planted them about 2weeks + ago. Monte carlo growing like crazy, planted them a month ago. Please tell me what to do.


    Lightning = Finnex Ray 2 & Planted plus


    Light distance to substrate = 36 - 40 cm


    High tech co2 = 2 bubbles per sec


    Dosing = KH2PO4+KNO3+MgSO4 Macro (Mon,Wed,Fri)


    Seachem flourish Micro (Tues, Thur, Sat)


    Rest Day (Sun)


    Osmocote plus root tabs


    Substrate = 2 Year old Ada Amazonia


    Water Temp = 29 - 30 c
     
    #1 thong123, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2016
  2. Dennis Singh

    Dennis Singh SynKing!

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    Looking good from my eyes.


    Downoi is said to be a hard water plant. I have witnessed this. Also rumored does better in sand.


    In softer water and aqua soil, an initial melt and then bounce back will happen.


    My advice, up co2 dial very slowly


    and up water changes***


    Pics are blurry, but i do see some green type algae?


    up co2 and up water changes
     
    #2 Dennis Singh, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2016
  3. thong123

    thong123 Junior Poster

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    hi Mr. tyvm for the reply. So sorry for the pic quality, my phone camera kinda sucks. The algue on the glass seems to be green dust algue.


    I Usually 50% water change on Mondays, is it possible to do 2 water changes a week ? i retaken some pictures of my plants..madagascar its so tiny.


    initially leaves were 20-25 cm long but now its only 5-6cm..


    Please guide me to the right path


    Thanks again Mr.




    CM160615-00243405(1).jpg

    CM160615-00273501(1).jpg
     
    #3 thong123, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2016
  4. Dennis Singh

    Dennis Singh SynKing!

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    Up the co2 as well.


    Bi weekly is possible and better.


    Guide you into the right path? eh


    Increase your co2 3bps


    40% biweekly wc, try it :)
     
  5. Dennis Singh

    Dennis Singh SynKing!

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    What filter are you using?
     
  6. thong123

    thong123 Junior Poster

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    I m using Fluval 406 canister. If bi weekly WC will i need to change my dosing regimen ? i m now using the Nutrient Company calculator.


    Thank you for all the tips given.
     
    #6 thong123, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2016
  7. Dennis Singh

    Dennis Singh SynKing!

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    No continue dosing however exactly you were dosing before.
     
  8. thong123

    thong123 Junior Poster

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    came back today and found one of my Downoi stem has totally melted & a few leaves barely sticking on it. (bottom left )


    Did my bi weekly WC today and hope for the best.




    20160615_214632.jpg
     
  9. Dennis Singh

    Dennis Singh SynKing!

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    Did you up the co2? The water change will do this without upping the co2. If your not gonna up the co2, I wouldn't go biweekly.
     
  10. thong123

    thong123 Junior Poster

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    i started increasing my co2 yesterday, and did my WC today. can it be related ? or i was too slow to make the changes to my tank.


    a picture of my tank after a few hours blasting it with co2, there are bubbles stuck to my glass as shown in the picture. tyvm

    20160616_011447.jpg

    20160616_011447.jpg
     
    #10 thong123, Jun 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2016
  11. Dennis Singh

    Dennis Singh SynKing!

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    The swing change could've made it melt.


    My "advice" keep at the advice.


    Lets see what other people out there have to say as well. We only human so we're flawed.


    I could be very well wrong.


    greenness of your leaves and growth could indicate co2 is good


    sometimes i second guess myself a lot.


    quoting someone else "co2 makes up 40% of the plant" are you providing that 40%


    I would not dose so much if you have root tabs, i may have overlooked that


    so hopefully others can chime in on this one.


    rapid changes to a system can put a shock on certain species, so do everything gradually


    Get Pikez in here....
     
  12. thong123

    thong123 Junior Poster

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    not to worry Mr. D Singh , i m happy that you are willing to share the experiences you have.


    My madagascar is stunded, what reason could it be that its not growing big and tall. had that plant for months already.


    could it be my lights ? 2 finnex should be good enough right ? my lights are on 6.30 hours per day with co2. thank you
     
    #12 thong123, Jun 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2016
  13. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    That sounds like an incredibly high amount of light, in combination with a fairly low overall plant mass.


    You listed what all you were dosing. Can you list how many ppms of each? Quite possible you have a nutrient soup using all that. The Osmocote alone might be enough for the plants you have. How much osmocote is in there? How deep is it buried?


    By Flourish do you mean Flourish Comprehensive? How many ml per dose? What size is the aquarium?


    Why the Mg 3x week? Usually that's done only once with water changes. Again how many ppms?


    2 bps isnt very much co2. Can you test the relative PH drop between degassed tank water and the tank water at peak co2?


    It's hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like you have quite a bit of algae as well?


    My guess is that you have way too much light and way too much nutrients. But it is important to know how many ppms of each thing you are adding before saying one way or another.
     
    #13 burr740, Jun 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2016
  14. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
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    Need more tank info (pH, KH, ppm of ferts) and better pics to get a clearer sense of what's going on. Having said that, a few things come to mind:


    1) Madagascar lace may be entering a rest phase. Leaves will get small and appear stunted. If this is the case, you'll have to take it out and store in a cool place for a couple of months. Under ideal conditions, they sometimes dont need to take a break.


    2) Adding Osmocote confuses things, depending on how much you've added. It becomes much harder to guess how much ferts you have.


    3) Add some Calcium, possibly CaSO4 along with the Mg. Pogo helferi may appreciate this.


    4) 2 bps doesn't indicate whether there's enough CO2, especially without knowing tank size (not sure if I missed that) and how it's infused/dissolved. Dose generous and rich amounts of CO2. Pretend CO2 is free. You may need 2-3X more than what you're dosing.


    5) I didnt think Seachem trace had iron in it....does it? If not, Comprehensive may be better. 2 year old Aquasoil may be getting low in iron.


    6) Water changes. Bigger. More often.


    7) Not sure how much light's reaching the substrate, but I feel pretty comfortable suggesting less light. A lot less.
     
    #14 Pikez, Jun 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2016
  15. thong123

    thong123 Junior Poster

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    iI will try to provide all the information the best i can. My tank is about 32 US gallons. I dose heavy handed and should be 20% more than the calculator.


    I do not dose gh boost, and dose Seachem Flourish Comprehensive for tnc trace. As for my Osmocote its planted about 5 cm deep from the plant, should i put the Osmocote nearer to the plant?


    I used to have a heavy planted tank with no algue issues. Now i overkill everything & dont mind the algue issues as long my Downoi grows. Please advise




    image_5635.jpg

    image_5636.jpg

    Screenshot_2016-06-16-23-37-02.jpg
     
    #15 thong123, Jun 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2016
  16. thong123

    thong123 Junior Poster

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    Pic 1. The stem seems to be melting/rot..Pic 2 show several plants leaves are changing color n dropping.




    CM160617-21221001.jpg

    CM160617-21222402.jpg

    CM160617-21221001.jpg
     
  17. nicpapa

    nicpapa Guru Class Expert

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    Remove the osmocote is the best choise...


    You are adding a lot of fert for those plants.
     
  18. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
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    With ferts more is not always better. 9 ppm of Phosphate per week is about 3X what most people following EI dose. And that's not including the Osmocote. Toss the Osmocote. You dont need it and it is not helping the situation. I'm not saying high Phosphate is causing the issue, but you are overboard on ferts.


    Find a way (one way or another) to reduce light intensity. Reduce ferts to about half EI given your biomass. More water changes. Add both Ca and Mg.


    Re-read all the advice given above. Even if it is not what you want to hear.


    It's like dealing with algae. There is no magic formula. It's mostly maintenance. But it's not what people want to hear.
     
  19. thong123

    thong123 Junior Poster

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    ok i try my best to remove the osmocot, and also reduce the ferts and light. Does Flourish comprehensive have Ca & Mg? can i just dose more of it pls?


    God bless
     
    #19 thong123, Jun 19, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2016
  20. Dennis Singh

    Dennis Singh SynKing!

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    Water temperature is high for downoi as well. TB might counter but is there a chance you can lower it? or do you have discus or rams...?
     
    Iceman likes this.
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