GSA - Green sludge algue

[Gilles]

Well i don't know if it exists, but i seem to be having problems that not BGA related. I wanted to start this topic to provide you with as much information as i currently have.

First of all, the tank:
350 liters of water, filtrated by a 180 liter sump. Return is done by a Red Dragon pump, rated at 4500 liters/hour. I direct approx. 1500 liters/hour of this return through my Aquamedic co2 reactor which is in the last compartment of my sump.

Nutrition:
I have been using EI for about 5 weeks now, consistently changing > 50% water with 100% tap water every saturday. Dosing is done using peristaltic pumps which have set intervals. I dose 3 times a week 40ml NO3, 40ml PO4 and Tropica Plant Nutrition. My water parameters are: PH 6.7, KH 7.5, NO3: 20ppm, PO4: 0.5-1ppm

Method: 2 day blackout (i left ferts and co2 turned on)
Results: Yes, but not everything died

Method: Cyanocell
Results: Yes, but not everything died

Method: Changed lights
Results: Not sure, i removed 1 blue-ish bulb and replaced it with a more yellow-ish bulb.

I am still having troubles with algue. Not BGA, Not hair, thread, green etc. It is a new kind of algue which Tom thinks is coming from asia. A quote he made to me in PM:

I wonder if it's something else, not the typical BGA.
Antibiotics will not cure it if so.............

And this one is really interesting:

Not sure what induces it, it appeared recently, likely out of South East Asia and can be transferred tank to tank unlike most other algae.....which need some inducement trigger.

I totally agree with him, since cyanocell won't kill it!

3 Day black out will kill BGA and this algae as well.
Will not hurt plants, turn off CO2, clean tank well, remove all the algae you can, do 50% water changes, then cover tank with trash bag etc , wait 3 days, then turn lights back on and do another water change, add ferts back.

After inspecting my plants today, i noticed that this algue has the strange habit to attach itself only to the edges of leaves. With my Limnophila Aromatica, this means that it attaches itself to everything, since the leaves are so thin. But on for instance the Lobelia Cardinalis, i see a very thin edging around the leaves which is clearly this algue.

So i think it feeds not on nutrients in the water, but nutrients which are leaked back into the water by the plants. I am not sure if this is even possible with algue, but it seems the case in my particular tank.

I wonder what it is, but i don't have anybody near who can make microscopic pictures of the algue. I want to call it Green Sludge Algue for now

 

[Tom Barr]

Try the blackout, it will kill it.

In most stem plants, the alga will not grow in vegetative cone or very newly formed leaves, only a few leaves down from there.

So it's like a two tone color plant almost.
I got rid of it in another tank without a blackout. Took 6 weeks though.
Blackout took 3 days.

Regards,
tom Barr

 

[Gilles]

Does it get on the glass also?
Does it grow on the very newly formed leaves?

No and no Only on the edges of leaves that are 1-2 days old.

However; status report:


I investigated a lot on how to get my water clear, since i was convinced that it was the BGA/GSA which was blooming into the tank once it let go of the leaves. After all, as long as the water is cloudy, the plants do not get the chance to grow since a lot of light is absorbed. So i went on a quest and got my tank 100% clear in 24 hours. I am absolutely impressed! I did 3 things of which 2 need to be done at thesame time.

1) I added a (in dutch) called Gaff sack to the tank, wich is a sack made out of very dense fibers. 25 micron to be precise. Normal filter cloth (the white ones) tend to get very very dirty and when you remove them they seep a lot of dirt back in the tank.

2) I added Kusuri Clay to the tank. Normally used in KOI ponds; (some marketing stuff at the bottom of this post). This clouded my water as to be expected. It binds all floating dust to the clay particles and it sinks to the tank or gets absorbed by the filter.

3) I added 20ml of bacto-pure; tested in a renound KOI magazine to be the best product in the Netherlands, to help some bacteria growth.

Obviously, the last step was not needed; but it could not do any harm. This morning when i came by my tank, i heard water cluthering in my sump. The Gaff sack was allready completely full with algue-and-other-dirt, and to my big surprise, my tank was 100% clear without any traces left of cloudiness in the water.

So; i cleaned the sack, added 10 gallons of water which was evaporated in the last couple of days and cleaned the gaff sack and hung it back in.

I am still hoping that i don't have to do a blackout, so far so good..

-- Gilles

Kusuri Klay is widely used throughout the UK, Europe, USA and the far east, is a beneficial weekly pond additive. A fine white powdered product that when added to any pond environment will release minerals through ion exchange. Using Kusuri Klay weekly in your pond will reap its own rewards as you will see better water clarity usually about 24 hours later, and better colour & lustre on your Koi after a few weeks.

Kusuri Klay also is a positive benefit to health as fish adsorb minerals in large quantities from the water which helps bone & cellular growth.

Since Kusuri Klay was introduced the use of Montmorillonite clay in ponds has become very popular with pond keepers. This has of course spawned many products now available.

There are hundreds of clays that fall into the "Montmorillonite" classification, many now being sold on to pond keepers, some will cloud pond water for several days, some are inert, some contain only 10 to 20% crystalline Montmorillonite. For these products to be effective dose rates could exceed over 500 grams per 1000 gallons to produce any significant benefit. Montmorillonite is not all the same!

Kusuri Klay is over 80% crystalline Montmorillonite with a purity level of over 98.8%. It is the market leader because it produces results!

 

[Tom Barr]

I think simply using a micron filter and UV would be more effective as far as killing and removing things mechanically.

Koi ponds have different challenges and a lot more volume.
1. They hate changing their water.
2. They over feed their Koi.
3. They tend to under filter for the bioload
4. They have far more volume of water than aquarist
5. They have 20x more light from the sun.........
6. Controlling temperatures is much harder
7. They are exposed to birds, vermin, that bring disease vectors into the pond

Those are just some of the issues.

Aluminum sulfate is a decent clarifyer and is cheap if you want to clear things up.
20-25 microns is okay, but for water clarity, you need to go to a 5 micron filter size. This will clog quickly, but if you can stagger, say a 50 micron filter first, then the 5 micron, the clogging will be much slower.

I tried the plant blackout on some highly susceptible L aquatica by taking the plant out of the tank, placing it in a bag for 3-4 days and then rinsing good in tap water and returned to the aquarium.

Seems to work.
In the 2 other tanks where this algae manifested, the CO2 was sub optimal. I was about to transfer the alga from these two tanks back and forth. I was not able to get the alga to grow in the 2 aquariums with good CO2. Tank water, light, sediments, dosing etc are the same.

When I added a little bit more CO2, it has not come back.

So kill the alga, then correct the issue. There maybe be other solutions to prevent it from coming back. It only appeared when I leave for vacation and do not dose for several days, check things etc.

Better than some species of algae, as this one does not bother the plants too much, does not leave lasting scars like BBA, only mild cases of suboptimal CO2 seem to cause it, is transferable in some cases, is relatively easy to kill not requiring that much labor(unlike Calodophora, or Bladderwort etc).

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[Gilles]

Well i found out what my problem was.. It took me some months but i think i nailed the source of the problems.

Turned out that i was adding Tropica Plant Nutrion Liquid + (as in: The one with added phosporus and nitrogens) besides that i was dosing nitrates and phosphates according to EI.

So; 35ml 3x a week with Tropica (and PO4/NO3) and also PO4/NO3 loose... I think you now agree that i was dosing a bit to much of all...

Now all i have to do is to let my tank settle, and then i'll post some new pictures.