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Growth Question

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by MediaOne, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. MediaOne

    MediaOne Prolific Poster

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    I hope I explain this correctly.

    If the growth segment between each successive growth of new leafs is longer, what does that tell me?

    vice versa, what if the segments are shorter?

    Does it mean the plants are reaching for light? Do I need to increase my photoperiod (I'm running quad t5 48" on a 90g).

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. MediaOne

    MediaOne Prolific Poster

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    *bump

    Anyone?
     
  3. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    You need to mention more data about your tank to see.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  4. MediaOne

    MediaOne Prolific Poster

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    I take it there is no general rule?

    What kind of information did you need? A photo of the plant(s) or system specs?

    Thanks in advance,
     
  5. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
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    Please provide:

    Lighting

    Tank Specs

    Substrate

    Dosing Schedule

    CO2 or not

    These will help you get specific answers.:)

    Good Luck, Chris
     
  6. MediaOne

    MediaOne Prolific Poster

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    Lighting - Quad 54Watt T5

    Tank Specs

    - 90Gal & Eheim Pro 3 Electronic
    - Neptune Junior Computer
    - Pressurized CO2

    Substrate

    - Florabase

    Dosing Schedule

    Day 1 Water Change 0.5 TSP KNO3 0.125 TSP KH2PO4 0.5 TSP K2SO4 1.5 TSP gH Booster Adjust KH
    2 Trace (10ML)
    3 0.5 TSP KNO3 0.125 TSP KH2PO4 0.5 TSP K2SO4
    4 Trace (10ML)
    5 0.5 TSP KNO3 0.125 TSP KH2PO4 0.5 TSP K2SO4
    6 Trace (10ML)
    7 Rest Day

    My guess is that it is from a persistent overdose of Excel. I have just finished dialing in my CO2 and will back off Excel after my waterchange tomorrow.
     
  7. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    It looks to me like you are underdosing all nutrients. I think you need about one tsp of KNO3, 1/4 tsp of KH2PO4 and the equivalent of 1/4 tsp of CSM+B. And, the computer doesn't seem to have a role to play. For CO2 you need a drop checker to be sure you have around 30 ppm of CO2 in the water. You could stop the K2SO4 if you wanted to.

    So, I would say the plants are growing towards the light, as all plants do, but so lacking in nutrients that they can't grow the usual number of leaves. In a healthy, well fertilized tank, that much light should give you bushier and bigger than normal plants, all growing very fast.
     
  8. MediaOne

    MediaOne Prolific Poster

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    according to the testing I am doing ... and referenced against standard solutions I have made .... I am not underdosing.

    I do have a drop checker (with kh 4 fluid) and it indeed is indicating adequate CO2.

    Any other ideas?

    FYI they are growing the "usual number of leaves". They are simply growing a surprising amount of stem in between each ...

    I feel the extra K2SO4 is needed ... as I have noticed holes in the leaves in the past.
     
  9. tcomfort

    tcomfort Junior Poster

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    Even if the tests you are performing are dead on, if the plants are still looking sketchy you could add more ferts as Vaughn suggests without any harm. It could be that you are testing immediately after dosing, get good results, then the plants soak up the nutrients, then they are a little starved until you dose again.

    If the plants have the "usual number of leaves" but with a lot of stem in between them, for a given height wouldn't that be "fewer leaves?" :p

    Keep us posted,
    -Tim
     
  10. MediaOne

    MediaOne Prolific Poster

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    I just checked my levels again ... after a day and a half of not dosing... and they are definitely fine (if not slightly high)....

    Does anyone else think it could be a result of excel overdose... I have been dosing 20ml of excel (sorry I left that out) every day since the last water change. AND, I had dosed 20ml per day for the week before that as well.

    and I do see what you are getting at about the leaves. I was looking at it as if the plants grew a set of leaves, stem, set of leaves, stem ... etc... but not that they would have more leaves in a smaller area.
     
  11. evandro.carrenho

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    Complementing this question about excel. I also dose it daily, but I have seen other threads where people mentioned dosing it on the water change only.

    What's the recommendation?

    Besides, If I have injected CO2, what excel provides on top of it?

    Thanks,
    Evandro.
     
  12. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    One thing the most experienced aquatic plant growers always tell us is to use the plants as the test kit. Do what the plants tell us. You have a lot of light, at least as much as you need, so if the plants don't grow well they are telling you they are short of nutrients. Since the main nutrients are carbon, nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium, it just follows that one or more is in short supply. If you are using the drop checker, with 4 dKH distilled or DI water in it, and it is green, you have plenty of Carbon, assuming you have adequate water circulation to have reasonably uniform distribution of CO2 around the tank. So, that leaves just the NO3 and PO4 to be deficient. (If you have enough KNO3 you will have enough K). Trace elements could be deficient too, but I don't know how to dose that as a liquid, since I only use CSM+B as a powder. Given that doubling the dosage of macronutrients does no harm, I can see nothing to keep you from trying that. If, after a couple of weeks, nothing changes, then you could double the trace element dosing. (Or, double everything at once.) I am almost certain your Excel dosing is not the problem. At worst it would cause trouble with vals or anacharis, and a very few other plants.
     
  13. evandro.carrenho

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    What about exel? Sometimes I feel I am just adding something that I already have plenty with CO2 injection.
     
  14. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    You don't need Excel for carbon if you have adequate CO2 injection, but Excel is also an algaecide, so using it can help stop BBA in particular.

    I just thought of another possible problem: MediaOne, how high are those lights above the water? Since my light is right above the water, maybe 2 inches above it, I rarely think about those who use pendant lights. If your lights are 20 inches, for example, above the water, you could be short on light. Leggy growth is also a consequence of too little light.
     
  15. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
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    Two of my tanks are similar in most respects, except one has stronger light than the other.

    In the tank with the stronger light, the H. polysperma grows fast and has internodal spaces of about an inch.

    In the less well lit tank, the same plant does not grow as fast and has internodal spaces of about 1/2 inch.

    The plants in both aquariums are healthy. The ones in the lower light tank are bushier.

    Bill
     
  16. MediaOne

    MediaOne Prolific Poster

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    VaughnH: My T5's are about 2" above the water. I switched two bulbs yesterday to more full spectrum (Giesemann Midday) models. I am going to add back my 5th and 6th bulbs (Giesemann Aquablue) just because I want to have a bluer look. I will indeed watch my carbon demand while I do that.

    FYI My photoperiod is 5.5 hours at the moment! I am worried about an onset of GDA a little. Because I wouldn't describe my plant mass as 100% healthy, I have been taking things slowly.

    VaughnH: Increased trace supplementation is something I have pondered for a while. It is refreshing to hear you suggest that trace could be increased. While I don't feel that is going to change anything, I will take your advice and double it. I'm glad I have you here by the way - thank you.

    Aquabillpers: Now that is something I can relate too. It seems that the better of a job I do supplying the plant necessities - the quicker the growth and the greater the distance between leaves.
     
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