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Growing all "hard plants" in the same tank well.

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by Tom Barr, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Some folks have suggested EI is inappropriate for fertilizing certain "hard to grow" plants etc.

    Well, I added the plants, and have nothing but positive glowing reports based on growth of every species.

    I have 12 new cutting coming along on Tonia fluvitalis after 2 weeks.
    R macrandra is growing like a weed with good color.
    R wallichii is nothing but a weed.
    HC is growing like a rug.
    Eustralis(P.) stellata is growing like a weed, so is L cuba.
    I have some Bolbitus and Cyperus as well.
    I also have the red Neasea which, much to my amazement is growign like the older stems and nice and red, similar leaf size etc and nice root formation.
    I have 2 species of Eirocaulon growing very well in here. Looks like I'll be selling some nice weeds soon. Rotala "green" is really looking nice.

    KH is about 4, Gh is about 6-7.
    CO2: mist
    Light: 110w (7" above the water's surface)
    Tank size: 20 Gal
    EI every other day routine.
    Filter: Via Aqua 100gph canister
    ADA soil

    Seems this combo can grow pretty much anything you can throw at it.

    If you float the Tonia for a few days first, the new side shoots will sprout and you can return the stems to the substrate to grow out. You can top the Tonia and replant the tops and leave the sprouted tips to branch and grow out.

    The Erio is easy once it gets going, it's branch at the top and continue to grow, but wait several days/a week or two even, till the stems are nice and long before topping.

    R wallichii likes good current and loves CO2 mist.
    Same with R macrandra.

    This should help someone.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  2. Martin

    Martin Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Growing all "hard plants" in the same tank well.

    Why is Eustralis Stellata always mentioned as a "hard plant" ?

    everyone i know that has this plant, has the same experience as me.... it grows like crazy, and is the fastest grower in the tank... mine grow faster than i care for, and is always at the waterline 1 week after heavy trimming.

    ( 80W of t8, 108W of t5 over 325L(85.3G) tank )

    my gH is 16 & kH about 10

    pH about 7.2 with Co2 injection.

    i dose according to schedule by TB & others.

    My E.S. grow almost no matter what i do to it... turn off Co2, and lower light, go on vacation, boom it's halfway across the tank..... Personally i'd rate it as easy....
     
  3. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Growing all "hard plants" in the same tank well.

    I agree with you, it's growing like a weed in every tank I have had it in.
    Good to see you do well with harder waters, in the past many folks had troubles with it. So they assume it's hard. Same with Red cabomba, they is a very easy plant today, but 20 years ago, folks considered it extremely difficult.

    Germans have considered a very difficult plant also and that was not long ago, maybe 10 years or less.

    Now when I talk abotu hard plants, I mean ones folks often have trouble growing and reproducing, not just growing alone.

    Tonia fluvitalis is one plant that folks seldom sell from their own tanks and so is Neasea "red". I've tried Neasea red several time, they tended to turn pale, then slowly stunt over time. Not no more.

    People always carry on about how hard Tonia is and how it needs acid soil or super soft water, yet I have a KH of 4, GH about 8 etc.
    Nothing special and I grow the beejeezes out of it according to what other's success rates are.
    Crap grows 2-3" weekly.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  4. martinphillip03

    martinphillip03 Lifetime Members
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    Re: Growing all "hard plants" in the same tank well.

    I'm sorry but what is EI

    thank you,

    Marty


    Some folks have suggested EI is inappropriate for fertilizing certain "hard to grow" plants etc
     
  5. DavidR

    DavidR Prolific Poster

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    Re: Growing all "hard plants" in the same tank well.

    What are you talking about Tom? 4 dKH IS super soft water! What about the folks, like myself, who are trying to grow plants in truly hard water? Have you done the tests for water that hard? My water must be liquid rock to you, but it's actually very common throughout the US...KH of 13+ with a GH of 18+. Try growing those plants in water that hard and tell/show me your results. I think you will find Rotalla Macrandra and Tonia to be quite difficult. I'm barely scraping by with Nesea Red. Pics of your results would be nice as well. I'd like to compare my growth with yours.
     
  6. TommyBoy

    TommyBoy Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Growing all "hard plants" in the same tank well.

    Tom:

    Have you considered also adding Eriocaulon setaceum, another "difficult" plant? Aqua-Forest (SFran) had some this month on sale.

    I've read both to fertilize and not "over" fertilize it (whatever that means). I'd love to know whether you are successful "in the long run" with it.

    Thanks.
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Growing all "hard plants" in the same tank well.

    Estimative index, see public archives here.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Growing all "hard plants" in the same tank well.

    Naw, some whiners claim Tonia must have KH's like 1-2, GH's 1-2, pH 5 etc otherwise it cannot be grown. 4-7 is about moderate, you can grow most things in that or lower ranges without issue, as the KH moves to 6-10 range, things start becoming more difficult with some plants.
    Other plants do exceptional though.

    The plants themselves are not hard to grow, it's just they do better/best in softer KH's.

    In Davis, the Tap is KH 14, Gh 17.
    I cut it with RO down to about 4 KH.

    I will say the ADA soil does help, the powersand has not done much.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  9. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Growing all "hard plants" in the same tank well.

    I brought extra cuttings to the open house from folks of that species, I gave 3 batches away to folks. So apparently I'm doing much better than AF is with it. Must be the EI and no ADA ferts. My plants are clearly larger, same batch they have so no other variation.

    They grow several inches a week. I prune Tonia/Erios once every two weeks, I've got 15 new stems of Tonia now. I left with 8 stems, I now have 30 something and am having to bring them to plant swaps. Humm......time to sell some of these weeds:) Folks are paying like 3-7 $ per stem.
    I brought 7 stems to the OH.

    I have 3 species of Erios, 2 Tonia, still after one of them.
    AF's Tonia's look sad.

    So we know it's not all ADA soil and ferts but..they do help.

    They tend their tanks daily there, I'm lucky to tend mine weekly but dose what is needed etc.

    So my answer, crank the CO2, no fert routine will do well unless you do that, then add good consistent rich nutrients, you do not need to go too high 20-25ppm is a decent NO3 target, 2ppm for PO4, etc.

    I will say a moderate to low KH will help most of these plants, I did well using flourite and a KH of 3, GH 5, so the substrate is not everything, but the ADa substrates do make it easier.

    But I've not found the Powersand to do much if you use EI.
    Plants do grow better using ADA soil + EI vs the full ADA program.

    Many bought into Dupla 15-20 years ago 100%, they bought everyuthing they sold and believed everything they said. Some products are worthwhile. some are not.

    Blind brand loyalty irks me personally.
    Folks may like SeaChem but few buy their Alkaline buffer, since we use baking soda.



    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
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