Green Water Pea Soup - Help Requested

[heavensabvus1]

I think I did not send my first post correctly...if this is a duplicate, sorry.

I have an ongoing battle with green water for the past 1 1/2 months and am losing. Here are the specs of my tank and what I do:

10 gallon
hang on Aquaclear filter with foam
50-60% water change per week
Amquel at water change
3 wpg flourescent
7 guppies, 3 shrimp, carpet of glosso and hairgrass, growing well
pressurized co2 (30ppm)
ammonia consistently tests at 0
add baking soda to raise kh from 0 - 6ppm
add fleet enema
add TMG
add stump remover (nitrates 10ppm)
add Seachem potassium

I have tried:
Water changes - no good as I expected
6 day blackout - improved but not completely gone, glosso grew tall, came right back after lights back on
Nutrient management - follow EI (at least I think I do).

I am running low on all tank additives and would just like to revamp what I am doing and order new stuff from Greg Watson's site. If someone can tell me exactly what to buy and exactly how much to add to this tank I will do it. I will follow directions precisely. I will do whatever you tell me to do to help solve this problem. If there is a way to do this without a UV filter or diatom filter I would be most grateful as they are expensive. I can no longer see my guppies and will gratefully accept all suggestions. Tom???
Beverly

 

[Tom Barr]

Re: Green Water Pea Soup - Help Requested

Well, you can do a few things, but guppies like to eat Daphnia, FW clams will do some, but you need a fair amount.

Water changes don't work, nutrient management or limiting will not work either.

You should add more sponge material to the filter.
UV's run about 30$ on ebay, other options: Hagen quick filter, a 9.75" cartiage filter(5 micron).

Any chem treatment or blackout will trash the plants.
I'd go UV personally. Even if you got it, I think it'd come back unless you get the tank cycled and add more filter media.

Adding water sprite etc real heavy from the start rather than trying to grow ina few bits and overall a very low plant biomass will cause issues, add l;ots of plants first, then after a month, phase them out.

Adding lots of plants from the start is the best way.
Both Hairgrass and Gloss take a while to get going and really removing the NH4.

But once they do, things are fine.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[ervis]

Re: Green Water Pea Soup - Help Requested

...I can no longer see my guppies and will gratefully accept all suggestions. Tom???
Beverly

I had green water in both my tanks. I cured it with patience and by adding lots of filter cotton material to my Aqua Clear filters. I bought a whole bag of cottony stuff from the LFS and cut it into pads. Depending on the sponge configuration of the filter, I either placed a few pads under the sponge, or in between sponges. The cotton clogs real fast and must be changed out frequently or the filter backs up. I also made inlet pre-filters by wrapping the inlet pipe with several wraps of cotton and securing it with a rubber band. These I could change when they turned dark green.

steve

 

[ceg4048]

Re: Green Water Pea Soup - Help Requested

Mr. Barr,
Not to hijack the thread but I'm confused by your response to the issue of green water algae. This is the first time I've seen where you appear to be stating that a specific algae cannot be addressed by EI or by taking care of the plants' environmental requirement.

Could you therefore help us understand what particular "niche" this species inhabits such that dosing regimen and water changes are not effective? I assumed that NH4 was a major contributor, and, you appear to be stating this in your response "...Both Hairgrass and Gloss take a while to get going and really removing the NH4..." Why is it not redressable at least in part by elliminating the NH4 via water changes to lower NH4 concetration and removal of spores?

In a previous thread you explained that a high NO3 level and CO2 tended to induce dormancy in the alage spores. Why does this not apply to GW?

ervis indicated that his GW was resolved by patience and mechanical filtration but there has got to be more to it than just filtration and waiting it out, doesn't there?

Now I'll use one of your arguments about reproducability. I have improperly cycled tanks many times before (no mulm, low biomass, no hairgrass/watersprite etc.) so where was my GW? I've never experienced it in over 20 years. I've had plenty of other types, for sure, but never GW. Why should other tanks develop this type and not mine?

If you clear GW up with a UV does it return if you shut off the UV and take no further action?

Any clarification you could provide about the special characteristics of GW algae would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

 

[Greg Watson]

Re: Green Water Pea Soup - Help Requested

Not to hijack the thread [...]
If you clear GW up

Not to hijack your question ... but my wife says there's nothing you can to to clear me up ...

GW

 

[heavensabvus1]

Re: Green Water Pea Soup - Help Requested

Thanks for your responses.

I happen to have a Hagen quickfilter with powerhead on another tank which is supposed to filter down to 1 micron, so I'll move that over immediately and run a double filter for awhile. I will also add more filter media to the Aquaclear, although there is not much room as I have a double sponge in it already. If this doesn't work, I'll move to UV, as suggested.

I am confused, though, about the cycling/plants/nh4 issue. This is a very well established tank, with glosso and hairgrass that I have to trim every week (1/4 tank at a time) or it will take over and leave no room. It's rampant. I also have consistent readings of 0 for nh4.

The only other algae in the tank is BGA that lives on a rock. It grew when I had DIY co2, but remained after adding pressurized co2. It's kind of flowing in the breeze and interesting so I have left it. It doesn't die or grow bigger. About 2 mths after adding pressurized is when the green water popped up.

 

[Laith]

Re: Green Water Pea Soup - Help Requested

Not to hijack your question ... but my wife says there's nothing you can to to clear me up ...

GW

She probably needs to fix a nutrient imbalance. Tell her to put you in small room, add more CO2, KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4 and CSM+B. She can get the ferts from www.gregwatson.com!

Sorry, couldn't resist...

 

[Tom Barr]

Re: Green Water Pea Soup - Help Requested

Mr. Barr,
Not to hijack the thread but I'm confused by your response to the issue of green water algae. This is the first time I've seen where you appear to be stating that a specific algae cannot be addressed by EI or by taking care of the plants' environmental requirement.

Could you therefore help us understand what particular "niche" this species inhabits such that dosing regimen and water changes are not effective? I assumed that NH4 was a major contributor, and, you appear to be stating this in your response "...Both Hairgrass and Gloss take a while to get going and really removing the NH4..." Why is it not redressable at least in part by elliminating the NH4 via water changes to lower NH4 concetration and removal of spores?

In a previous thread you explained that a high NO3 level and CO2 tended to induce dormancy in the alage spores. Why does this not apply to GW?

ervis indicated that his GW was resolved by patience and mechanical filtration but there has got to be more to it than just filtration and waiting it out, doesn't there?

Now I'll use one of your arguments about reproducability. I have improperly cycled tanks many times before (no mulm, low biomass, no hairgrass/watersprite etc.) so where was my GW? I've never experienced it in over 20 years. I've had plenty of other types, for sure, but never GW. Why should other tanks develop this type and not mine?

If you clear GW up with a UV does it return if you shut off the UV and take no further action?

Any clarification you could provide about the special characteristics of GW algae would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

GW is not going to beaten throuygh nutrient mangement once induced.
You can try, if there is CO2 and high light, you can forget it.

Water changes will never completely eliminate GW, GW needs very little to live on. They also reproduce very fast.
Once you have adult GW algae, then NH4 no longer matters.
NH4 just induces it, it is not required for long term growth.

As far as long term NO3/CO2 not inducing algae, that's true, but you first need to get rid of what's there first.

This is also true for BGA, Cyanobacteria.

I suggest getting of rid of what is there first .......for any algae.
Then re set environmental parameters..........

Light play a large role in GW, less light, more floating plants=> less chance of GW. Blackouts work on low light tanks, but few low light tanks get GW......

So intensity of the outbreak plays a large role and why some methods work like blackout for some folks while others do not.

To this end, when you discussed your other 20 years worth of tanks never having GW, did you add CO2 and high light to these?

High light was very hard to find 20 years ago as I recall, I had a hard time making a 2 w/gal hood with NO FL's. Few used CO2.

A UV run for 2-3 days after the tank clears up requires no further action if you are doing EI and have enough biomedia in the filter as well(not needed in most cases but as a precaution).

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[ceg4048]

Re: Green Water Pea Soup - Help Requested

Light play a large role in GW, less light, more floating plants=> less chance of GW. Blackouts work on low light tanks, but few low light tanks get GW......

So intensity of the outbreak plays a large role and why some methods work like blackout for some folks while others do not.

To this end, when you discussed your other 20 years worth of tanks never having GW, did you add CO2 and high light to these?

High light was very hard to find 20 years ago as I recall, I had a hard time making a 2 w/gal hood with NO FL's. Few used CO2.

Well, that's true, I've only been using high light for the past few years but I was an early Dennerle devotee so I have been playing with CO2 for the past 10 years. Even so, I've never experienced it in any of my recent setups, although, as I said, I get everything else under the sun. What's incredible is that I've actually tried to induce this form outdoors in an attempt to culture daphnia and have failed miserably. This is what baffles me. Let's say that you get a NH4 spike during cycling of a high light CO2 fed tank. What factors determine whether GW develops as opposed to brown, hair or some other form?

Cheers,

 

[heavensabvus1]

Re: Green Water Pea Soup - Help Requested

Tom--

I've set up the quick filter with a powerhead and reduced the light a little. Meanwhile, I am watching for a UV on ebay...would be a good thing to have handy I think anyway, although neither of my two other tanks have a problem and, in fact, this is the first time I've ever had green water. So, I'll give that a few days and see if it helps.

Although, after reading that some people are actually trying to induce this or have never had it, I am not so sure I want to get rid of this -- perhaps I have something really special here that I should keep -- just move the guppies to another tank and pretend this tank is one big, green plant.

Beverly

 

[chubasco]

Re: Green Water Pea Soup - Help Requested

Not to hijack your question ... but my wife says there's nothing you can to to clear me up ...

GW

A lot of folks thought GW could be beaten, but you'll notice, he's still in
office.......ummm, what were we talking about?

Bill

 

[heavensabvus1]

Re: Green Water Pea Soup - Help Requested

Well, just reporting back....the soup is getting thicker and the quickfilter didn't slow it down one bit. Soooooo....I hit ebay and have ordered a Jebo 9w uv sterilizer with powerhead. Will hook it up the second it arrives and report back!