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Green Dust Algae

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by Singtoh, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. Singtoh

    Singtoh Prolific Poster

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    Hello All,

    I have been battling what I think is Green Dust Algae on the glass of my aquarium. I have looked at various pictures on the internet and I see Green Spot Algae listed as Green Dust Algae??. I know that Tom has the cure for this, but wasn't sure if its Green Dust Algae or not. Most of what I read about GDA, people say it "easily wipes away from the glass". Well, I wouldn't call mine wiping away easily, but it's not that difficult, it takes a bit of elbow work. The algae is very small, green dust looking dots on the glass and shows up about 2-3 days after a good cleaning+water change. I have been putting up with this for months now, so I decided to ask the experts here. I have had Green Spot Algae on the Anubias plants(Big Spots) before and it doesn't look like that on the glass so I am pretty sure it is not Green Spot Algae?? Anyway, after all this said, I guess my question is, does Green Dust Algae just simply wipe away as I have read, or do you need to work at it just a bit to get it to come off, it feels a bit hard to the touch?? If this is what I have I guess I will go with the 3 week no wipe routine to get rid of this crap. Thanks in advance for any help you can send my way.

    Cheers,

    Singtoh
     
  2. nipat

    nipat Guru Class Expert

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    Hi, my GDA needed three or four times of scrubbing with a plastic card (I didn't press
    it very hard though).

    I didn't wait 3 weeks. I couldn't stand looking at dirty glass. So I wiped it after waiting
    for about 10 days or so. Then I just cleaned the glass every week, a long with changing
    water. It returned less and less before going away.

    I read someone followed the 3-week procedure strictly but the GDA still returned.
    But I think it would be less than before. So if that happens to you, just clean the
    glass when you change water. It should go away over (short) time.


    Cheers
     
  3. Singtoh

    Singtoh Prolific Poster

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    Green Dust Algae

    Hello Nipat,

    Ya, I have been doing that for about 2-3 months now, and it allways comes back. I do %50 water changes every week, dose properly, clean the glass spotless and it still returns. I just looked at it and noticed that it is only on the front glass and not on the sides. This is day 6 after water change. I think I will just do the 3 week no wipe the glass trick and see what happens. I am sure it will be ugly, but if it cures it, all will be good. Thanks for the reply Nipat.

    Cheers,:)

    Singtoh
     
  4. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    3 weeks? More like 3 months+ in some cases. I mean if you've got it bad maybe it'll burn out its cycle sooner. Personally I've found that good PO4 dosing avoids the issue beyond a scraping every month or two anyhow.
     
  5. Singtoh

    Singtoh Prolific Poster

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    Hello Philosophos,

    Well, it isn't that bad yet, I can still see thru the glass at the moment, but it seems to only be attacking the front glass for some reason??. My PO4 is at 1-2 ppm and I have calibrated my test kit. I wouldn't think I would need more PO4. Nitrates are at 15 to 20ppm, and also calibrated test kit. K2So4 is around 20 to 30 I assume, no test kit to check that but thats what i dose up to. And i think iron is in good shape, dosing with CSM+B maybe a little on the lean side, but again, no test kit for that either, cause I heard they are rubbish. Plants are doing well, lots of pearling and good growth. CO2 is in good shape, so I guess I will will wait it out and see if it starts to turn brown, as that is the color I read that means it is dying. Wait and see I guess?? Thanks for the post Philosophos.:)

    Cheers,:)

    Singtoh
     
  6. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Ya... it'll do that. Sometimes the front, back, a piece of hardscape, etc. and I think it's got a decent bit to do with light intensity. Perhaps not high or low, just a preferable range.

    It's good to see you're calibrating; an amazing number of people skip out on it. The PO4 can easily go higher; 3-5 ppm is where you'll find GSA gives out. It does take a while to fall back as the method reduces growth to a crawl rather than push it past its point of equilibrium.

    Perfect range there.

    Testing is kind of pointless with K+ anyhow. Dosing 20-30ppm K2SO4 is only around 9-13.5ppm K+:

    =30*78.19662/174.259
    =13.46213739

    If you want to dose for K+ from K2SO4, then multiply the desired level of K+ by 2.228472279 to find out how many ppm of K2SO4 to dose.

    Ya, iron is hit and miss and it ends up in the substrate quite easily if I recall correctly. You can easily aim for 5ppm Fe from CSM+B without any worries, and your plants may be better for it. If everything is working well for you though, I wouldn't go to great lengths to change it.
     
  7. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    That's what I assumed too....until I turned the turned the CO2 up and discovered that it was much too low because my Ph sensor was off. Since then no GSA on the glass.
    Assumptions should be ruled out by verifying.

    Of course I have high PO4 too, around 4 ppm.
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    +1

    regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  9. Singtoh

    Singtoh Prolific Poster

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    Hello again Philosophos

    Ok, so I guess I am still under dosing K2So4 then. If I understand this correctly, assume I want 20ppm per week going into my tank then according to the Dosing calculators I should be adding enough K2So4 in my N-P-K solution to say I am dosing 44.56944558ppm/week as per cc's added per week, and that will actually give me 20ppm?? I would also add to that what I get from adding in the KNO3 to make the final number come to around 44ppm/week, I am dosing using Chuck Gadds calculator and also Fertilator for Fleet Enema(the two calculators match up on everything else), and going by what Chuck says as a comment on his calculator as to dose around 20ppm/week, I am not getting that at the moment. Thanks for the help and clearing this up with the K2So4(I think):) .

    Cheers,:)

    Singtoh
     
  10. Singtoh

    Singtoh Prolific Poster

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    Hello Dutchy,

    Well, I cant count the bubbles of CO2, they are going so fast. I don't use a Drop Checker, although I have a couple laying around. I guess I should make up some 4DKH solution. All I have been doing is dropping the PH by 1 or slightly more from what the tank water is, that has sat out for 24hrs. My KH is 6 and it is difficult to get the PH drop by 1. I bubble the CO2 into the output hose coming off my EHEIM rite near the pump itself so the bubbles get broken up good, which then goes to the input of the chiller, thru the chiller and up to the tank. I see absolutley no CO2 bubbles coming out of the output hose going into the tank and I actually take a flashlight and look thru the hose at the pump to make sure CO2 is actually flowing, so I have to believe that is getting dissolved %100. I see no stress on the Amano Shrimp Cherry Shrimp, or any of the fish. My PO4 is around 2 which I thought I should bring down by 1, but maybe will go up instead, but having said that, I was way overdosing PO4 before, due to the fact I made a bad mix, misread the numbers and such. By way overdosing I mean I added 135cc of Fleet Enema to 1L of DI water, and was adding 10cc of that solution per day into a 80L tank, but even at that amount, I still got the Green Dust Algae, the same as now, but no other Algae problems, so now any of my buddies that say PO4 causes algae, I strongly dissagree. Now like I said, my PO4, with a calibrated API test kit reads around 2ppm. So I guess I will wait it out for a bit and see what happens, if all esle fails, I will up the PO4 to around 4ppm. Thanks for the info Dutchy.

    Cheers,:)

    Singtoh
     
  11. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Blunt Instrument

    Hi Singtoh (Pat?),

    You may have already done this and I apologize, lacking a brain I often lose track, could you give us a run down on your tank, as well as dosing? :eek:

    Are you using the Osmocoat (and how much) Nipat recommended? I recall you have a sand substrate, otherwise I know very little about your tank. It is difficult to give specific advice without the facts.

    It is likely just me but there is a certain circular nature to this conversation, I find discomfiting.:(

    Dan the Philosophos fellow has put in a lot of effort, with his usual great precision, he is an artist, a skilled surgeon, I on the other hand, am an Evil Plant Monster, low IQ, lower skills, generally the blunt instrument, take no prisoners type.:eek:

    In my ever humble (I am a potted plant, how can it be otherwise) opinion there is no reason to fool around with green dust or spot or whatever algae unless that is what you wish. Armed with Fleet Enemas, there is no blockage, er, GDA that can stand (stick?) before you. Okay, a credit card and paper towel or two and water changes won’t hurt either. :)

    Then jack up the CO2, lower the light, then you can go back to your parts per hundred million, billion, hundred billion, dosing schemes.

    Biollante
     
  12. Singtoh

    Singtoh Prolific Poster

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    Hello Biollante,

    Yes, well I am no Einstein, in fact very very far from it. My tank is 77 liters in the water column, with a rock substrate, approx size of the rock is around 2mm, with asorted slightly larger rock that I have gathered from Africa and the Middle East. I mix a solution of CSM+B for trace. My mix for that is 500cc of DI water with 16 grams of CSM+B, I dose 8cc's which should give me .22ppm each time I dose, which is Tue. Thur. and Sat., Friday is water change day and %54.6 of the water is changed. The odd numer is because I use 6 liter bottles for the water change. I double dose(16cc's) on Saturdays to accomadate the water change on Friday. My Macro mix is KNO3, PO4 in the form of Fleet Enema, K2So4, and MgSO4.7H2O. I mix this in 750cc's of DI water as follows. I dose 6cc's of this mix on Mon. Wed. and Friday, with a double dose(12cc's) after the water change. I add 30 grams of KNO3 which should give me 1.91 KNO3 each time I dose. I know this sounds low, but after the water change i test for KNO3(not every time cause I know it comes to the same usually every week) and I come to around 20ppm before the water change and around 10ppm after the water change with a calibrated API KNO3 test kit. The rest of my nitrates come from my fish load I guess, I feed lightly and only once per day. I have 3 Amano Shrimps(going to go get 6 more today reasonably cheap here) 6 adult Cherry Shrimp, 1 of which just had babies, of which around 15 survived and doing well. I lost some to Rummy Nose Tetra's and others I guess. I have 3 Rummy Nose, 6 Endlers, 4 Cory's, 6 Neon Tetra's, and 4 Oto's. I had 2 true SAE's but they were eating my Christmas Moss, so i got rid of them last week and the Moss has really started to grow now, since it is not being picked at by the SAE's. Back to the ferts, MgSO4.7H2O i add 80 grams to 750cc's of DI water which should give me .82ppm each time I dose,PO4 from Fleet Enema I add 14cc's to 750cc's DI water, which should give me .19ppm each time I dose, so it seems with the fish and food and what not, after the water change I end up with around 2ppm PO4 tested with API PO4 calibrated test kit, the API test kit color chart goes from 1ppm to 2ppm and the color is between the 2, before the water change tested PO4 always is around 2, so the plants are keeping it there I guess. K2So4 I add 125 grams to 750cc's of DI water, which should give me 7.03ppm each time I dose. I mix N-P-K and Mag. together and CSM+B seperatley, and have made auto dosers to dose on timers. Plants are as follows: A couple of Java Fern that I keep trimmed up with say 6 or 7 leaves, 1 Anubias Petite Nana, 1 Crinum Thaianum(Onion Plant), 1 Pogostellum Stellatus, 3 small clumps of Valisneria Nana, 6 stems of Water Wisteria(just thinned these out the other day), about 6 watter lettuce floating about, but I have to thin these down every week because they grow fast, and a kinda knarled looking piece of driftwood coverd with Christmas Moss along with another piece of driftwood covered with Christmas Moss. I have an external 2234 EHEIM ECCO filter rated at 500 liter/hr, a small EHEIM 2010 internal filter rated at 220-500 liter/hr. CO2 injection with AZOO Regulator, diffused as stated in my earlier post. last but not least, I tested my other parameters a few days ago and they are. GH=9, KH=6, 15-20ppm KNO3, 2ppm PO4, Ammonia,Nitrite=0, PH before CO2 injection=7.5, After approx. 4 to 5 hours after CO2 injecton PH=6.5ish tested with Tetra PH Test Kit. I start CO2 injection 4 hours before lights on with a timer and run it thru the lighting period. 95 watts of CFL, Custom Wooden Canopy. The lights are 2 13 watt Phillips Tornado twisty looking 6500k, 2 23 watt Phillips Essential triple tube, 6500k. These are the normal screw in type spaced evenly inside the hood so I have good light distribution, and also a 24 watt 7200k CFL. Lights are on 12hrs per day. I think this is quite a bit of light, but from the lights to the substrate it is 47cm and the aquarium is Bow Front(not that that has anything to do with anything). I have found that with less light my hair grass won't grow, but having said that it doesn't do to well anyway. maybe because of the plain rock substrate?? Thats it in a nutshell Biollante. I dont' think I have left anything out. Thanks for the reply, and I hope I didn't bore you with too much info.:) Oh, Osmacoat, I don't know what that is.

    Cheers,

    Singtoh
     
  13. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    Well, it sounds good, but I can shoot some holes in it.;)

    The outgassing method is very inaccurate to begin with. It will give you a range, but it could be off as well.

    That your KH is 6, is a nice figure, but doesn't say much. Example: My KH is 8. With a verified Ph of 6.4 that gives me 100 ppm of CO2. My fish should be dead. Actually they are very happy with it. My 4 dKH dropchecker says I have 40 ppm.

    The fact that you have a high bubble rate doesn't necessarily mean good CO2. Why do you have such a fast bubble rate on a 80 liter tank, when I can do 2 to 3 bps on a 200 liter tank? Lots of variables here.

    Did you try to see when the level is where the fish or shrimp stress out? Then back off a little. No need for numbers or drop checkers.

    Letting a LOT of water flow hit the front window also makes a difference.

    And...but maybe Tom or someone else is going to correct me...to me it looked like that there's a bigger effect when the ratio N/P is off from the Redfield Ratio. So there's a bigger effect when NO3 is 10 ppm and PO4 4 ppm than when NO3=30 and PO4=4. But that's just an observation I thought to make.

    Regards,
    Dutchy.
     
  14. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I keep my N and P around 3:1 maybe 4:1 ratio.

    I do not think ratios play any role in algae or plant growth, just their absolute individual valves.

    If you want to play with the Redfield or any ratio, then you MUST included, just like any table or chart for deficiencies for plants, CO2, since it acts as a limiting nutrients unlike terrestrial systems.

    Where CO2 is stable, the ratio can be all over the place, and in fact, the natural field data, as well aquarium data has clearly showed this for decades. Anyone willing to look should be able to see outside their own one aquarium world, that ratios play little if any role.

    But few bother to look or measure other N and P's where there are no problems(hence a reference). Just because I might have a nice tank and RR does not imply a thing about algae. Nor plant growth other than for that system it is working.

    All an aquarist has to do to falsify such a hypothesis is show some nice growth without algae outside that ratio and the hypothesis is now cooked, fried, done, and falsified.

    If you do not measure things, like............oh..........light with comparable unit(say PAR), perhaps even worse with CO2...........then wanna talk N and P and then ratios?

    That is "the tail wagging the dog".
    Light drives the growth, followed by a stable CO2.
    Nutrients are very mallable and we can add them to the sediment or the water column or both. How does the RR account for enriched sediments where the N and P are off by even larger factors?

    It doesn't.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  15. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Well anyway I kind of expected an answer like this about my "observation" :)

    Thanks master for putting me on the right track again;)

    regards,
    Dutchy.
     
  16. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Well, all you need is a couple of examples where the ratio is off, to disprove the ratio hypothesis.

    We also see that with say 20ppm of NO3 and 0.2ppm PO4, a ratio of 100:1, no ill effects, as long as the PO4 is able to be kept at that level(daily dosing is required).

    So it goes both ways, no GDA in both cases, so be careful when speculating and ask if you have examples where they do not have such ratios as yourself, look more comparatively.

    Only then can you really see a pattern, a pattern of one tank is not a pattern, a few folks having similar issues also may or may not be a pattern.

    When you have nice examples without algae, and a wide range, then that actually says something useful(serves as a control provide their ppm's are correct, dosing etc), whereas 10 folks all having a similar problem is not a control.

    They all might be missing the same thing, or messed up their CO2, have too much light, not enough current, forget to clean their filter, not doing enough water changes.............

    It's only examples of success can we compare and see potentially underlying causes(falsifying our hypothesis) if no one can offer an example that has good results from dosing the RR or whatever ratio you wish to test outside the hypothesis claim.

    Most folks simply do not get this or understand this concept.
    They think they can manipulate the system without any control references and assume the conclusions they make are correct even when a control from someone else's aquarium clearly shows that cannot be the case in and of itself.

    Then they hedge when you ask them how another aquarium has those condition and no issues:rolleyes:

    You are not going to find causes so damn easy, it's much more difficult to make that type of conclusion and you must test every possible other cause and try to falsify each idea you might have about the causes.

    If you only look at one possibility then you leave yourself wide open to many other potential causes and errors. That is what many seem to do. A reference control is required, most cannot do that and have issues, which is why they are posting and seeing if others also have the same thought processes/algae issues, plant growth problems etc.

    So how can you test without control?
    You cannot.

    That is why I have busted many myths, not because I figured out what causes things, rather, why does not cause things. Hopefully, you are left with fewer and fewer possible causes and better management practices as you test things.

    It's slow going.
    Not these simple quick solutions and luck that hobbyist seem to think testing is all about. This is in general and not directed at anyone specifically, we all have done this.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr




    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  17. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    Most hobbyists don't even know how to test and about a hypothesis, falsifying it or reproducing it. Or they don't have the means to do it.

    An observation though, clearly not more than that, is keeping your eyes open, see what happens and try to form a hypothesis from that. If there are other people that confirm the observation, we could try to state a hypothesis and see if it's falsifiable and reproducable.

    I think an observation can be mentioned, as long as it is not more than that. When we assume the observation as a fact, we go wrong since we didn't test.

    For us here on this site, it's easier, because you can tell us. Still I think there are undiscovered aspects, especially concerning algae. Like why high PO4 makes GSA stop growing.

    If we can't make observations because we are not able to test it, the average hobbyist will be lost. Because who has the means and knowledge to test?

    A lot of people on forums in my country don't even know how to write their own language right. Hypothesis? They don't even know how to spell it.

    regards,
    Dutchy
     
  18. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Order To Information

    HI Singtoh,

    I will concede you are no Einstein; he brought order, clarity and eloquence.

    Thankfully, to grow aquatic weeds we need not be Einsteins. :)

    I am going to assume this information dump is a result of disorganization and not an attempt to muddle and befuddle. So, on the off chance you are serious I have reorganized the data. If I am in serious error, please correct me.

    You have a bow front aquarium that has 77 liters in the water column plus unspecified space for gravel and small rocks from various parts of the world. (Total volume would have been nice; from an earlier post, I gather it is an 80-liter aquarium.)

    You change a little more than 50% of your water each week. I cannot discern if it is tap water or some purchased water. (If it is reverse osmosis/deionized (RO/DI), distilled or some specialty water, I need to know. Since you specified DI when talking about your fertilizer mixtures, I will assume tap water for water changes.

    I know there are many calculators and our personal calculators allow us to figure things to many decimal places, but this is the real world, the stuff we are using isn’t that pure. We are lucky to be in the parts per million ranges, humor me, round it off. ;)

    Without going through everything else, too much light is your number one, top problem, at least until everything is under control, reduce your lighting, and get it down to the 2-23 watt Phillips Essential triple tube, 6500k, 12 hours a day are fine. Until everything else is operating correctly you need to cut the lighting by half, it does not matter what your reasons are.

    CO2 is your second problem something is definitely wrong. I think you are going to need to build (or buy) some sort of reactor. You are at best wasting a lot of CO2 and I doubt that you are getting anywhere near the 30 ppm that a one degree drop in pH should indicate (too many other factors to trust the charts). Let the algae, plants your critters indicate proper levels. By reducing your lighting, you will make your CO2 more effective.

    Start your CO2 one hour prior to lights on, turn the CO2 off two hours prior to lights out.

    Forget the testing for now, even if it is accurate, it is doing more to confuse than help. Stop testing.

    I cannot tell if you mix chemicals into 500 ml or 750 ml of DI water or mix than top off to make the desired amount.

    For now:

    Into 500 ml of distilled water mix:
    • 14 grams of KNO3
    • 8 ml of Fleet Enamas
    • 2 grams K2SO4
    • 20 grams MgSO4.7H2O (Epsom salt)
    • Add enough distilled water to make 960 ml of solution
    Store in dark (clean) container with cap, marked “Macro.”
    Dose 80 ml after water change (first), third and sixth days.​
    ;)

    Into 500 ml of distilled water mix 6 grams of CSM+B, if you use Vitamin C, HCL or Excel as a preservative add it now, top off with distilled water to make 960 ml of solution. Store in a dark (clean) container with cap, marked “Trace.”
    Dose 80 ml on second, fourth and seventh days.

    This is four weeks’ worth.

    Into 190 ml of distilled water mix 10 ml of Fleet Enemas and put into a squirt bottle.

    At your next water change, after you have removed at least 50% of the water, scrape as much of the algae as you can off the glass, then with a brush (toothbrush is good) clean all the algae you can. With a paper towel for wiping, squirt the glass and any exposed hardscape, equipment whatever, with the enemas solution, wiping with the towel above and below the waterline as best you can. Clean your filter.

    If possible, repeat on the third and sixth day, returning to normal water changes on the eighth day.

    The Osmocote reference was to http://www.barrreport.com/showpost.php?p=40877&postcount=7 where you had asked about enriched substrates.

    Given the plants, you mentioned I think enriching your substrate is a good idea. Osmocote seems the easiest and most direct method and is available in Thailand. It can be tricky to keep down especially with a gravel substrate. I think Nipat used a straw. I found a filter bag or light cloth material works well. I have started using window screen material, I think it is fiberglass; it seems to be working very well. :)

    Biollante
     
  19. Singtoh

    Singtoh Prolific Poster

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    4:42 AM
    Hello Dutchy,

    Now that you mention it, outgassing could be my problem. I have surface movement which in my opinion is not too much, meaning there is no splashing of water or anything like that, but I do have rippling, for lack of a better word of the water surface. It looks to me to be a little, but to someone else, they may say it is way too much. I will try to make that less and see what happens. I haven't tried to make the fish gasp for air yet, but as I said before, the bubble count is faster than I can count. Having said that, I forgot to mention that I made a bubble counter out of a 10cc glass syringe with a Stainless Steele check valve stuck thru 2 rubbers of a 10cc plastic syringe plunger and just stuck that into the glass syringe(not that this has anything to do with anything). The bubble counter is filled with mineral oil and I am using CO2 tubing and am confident that there is no leaks, and as it is now I cant count how many bubbles are going in cause it's too fast. I read on the internet that with a high KH, that the PH is harder to drop, but I will disregard that as rubbish since you don't seem to have a problem dropping your PH with a KH of 8. I guess in the end it is ok, just wasting CO2. It must be the surface movement of the water. I really don't like using diffusers or stuff like that because of the maintenance issues, always getting clogged and such, and the only bubbles I like to see in the aquarium are from pearling. The method I am using for injecting CO2, IMO is working. How could it not be? I see no CO2 bubbles in my tank, so it must be getting dissolved 100%. It must be surface movement?? Thanks for the reply Dutchy, your mention of outgassing may have helped on this issue. I have an Ideal metering valve on order, but as it stands now that is a waste of money since the bubble rate is thru the roof.

    Cheers and Best Regards,:)

    Singtoh:confused:
     
  20. Singtoh

    Singtoh Prolific Poster

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    4:42 AM
    Hello Biollante,

    Uhh, I didn't mean my post to be an "information dump" and as far as the "off chance I am serious", I am serious:) . You asked me to post details about my tank and I did, but as you pointed out I forgot a few things. As far as your comment "I will concede you are no Einstein; he brought order, clarity and eloquence". That's a bit below the belt, do you agree?? I simply was posting what I thought you needed to better give me an idea of what the problem might be, and I am sorry that my post was not in order, didn't have clarity, and wasn't fluent, expressive, or articulate enough to suit you. Please forgive me:) . I do thank you for your post though, and I will try the things that you mentioned. Given your mixture above, wouldn' the KNO3 peak at around 50ppm by the water change, not including the fish waste ect.ect. which in my case I would have around 60-70ppm at water change?? the PO4 would peak at around 5ppm not including fish waste ect.ect. so in my case I would have around 7ppm PO4 at water change?? and the K2So4at around 30ppm which is nearly what I have at the moment?? Magnesium is nearly the same as well, please correct me if I am wrong??. As far as lights go, I'll take a couple of them out of the hood. You assumed correctly on tap water for water changes, it tests 0 Nitrate, 0 PO4 consitantly. I treat with De-Chlor. Thanks again for the reply Biollante, much appreciated.:)

    Cheers,

    Singtoh
     
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