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Green dust algae and herbivores

Discussion in 'Algae Control' started by Tom Barr, Feb 25, 2006.

  1. mfbonfante

    mfbonfante Junior Poster

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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    My GDA started when I brought a 100 of local shrimps, named paleomonetes argentinus, wild caught. Very cheap, indeed (only U$S 2 for all of them), but I accuse them to carry the infestation. Rats!.
     
  2. freemann

    freemann Junior Poster

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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    I have this dust algae in my tank as well as I have told you before Tom, mine is brown and grows like fire once it takes over, plant leaves under it are suffocated this is why I am cleaning it frequently, at the same time I can see that algae appears in the glass just after 2-3 days ( by the way a very good indication of abudance of algae inducing agents in the tank for me) also various lamps of fluffy algae appear among the hairgrass, a bit of bga and some sort hair algae on some leaves of specific plants (common characteristic of all this algae is the easiness of removal. The feeling I have and I hear the same reported from others mind you, that are using EI aswell is that the tank gets "hot" somehow after some days of adding all ferts and unless they do a wc, tanks tends to get infested with this kind if I can say "dirty" algaes. I have tons of CO2 (I increased it per your instructions and it made no difference) and all the ferts are there including micros. If I let the tank for longer time without wc I am pretty sure that it will crash. At the same time plants are growing, perling like crazy while this algaes are constantly ready to creep in. I know Tom you have no problems in your tanks but it seems that there are still problems that must be resolved at least in other peoples tanks. Yourself start saying now about leaving the tank with no ferts for some days or without CO2 to clean this algaes. Maybe the answer to all this lies in using light as the limiting factor (could it be that people that report this kind of problems have excess light? I do) and also maybe 25 - 30 ppm NO3 and the rest on the high ranges is to much and under this light are inducing this algaes? I never used to have algae problems in the 25 years I am in the planted hobby not even with the high light from the metal halides which I always used, low steady CO2 and low constant ferts 1,5 ppm per day with dosing pumps (maybe some mild defficiencies which mostly were from micros which now with my current experience I am pretty sure I could resolve anyway) and rich substrates. I have to confess I am now growing a ton of stuff I could not grow before using EI but at the same time I am running now after this tank like never before to keep the above mentioned algaes at bay. Maybe as I said before it is all this light I have, 3x150 MH over 100 gal 10 hours daily, is the culprit, now here both the above mentiond algae and plants grow just fine.
    By the way my new programable dimmable HO T5 hood just came and I will be able to verify all this by removing the MH's and controling the light.
    Just my thoughts :)
    Freemann
     
  3. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    It's not this simple thing like add this and it will cure everyone's problem.

    Nothing will do that.

    Sometimes it's just one or two things.

    But not always.

    In a well run tank, adding excess ferts does not cause algae, far more folks that add EI verify these results than have the issues you have.

    The real question you should be asking is why do you have the issues and what is the best management approach to things.

    I too can grow swords without CO2, and most plants in a non CO2 tank appproach. Does that mean the CO2 methods are bad? No, it means IO've not learned how to use that method or things got away from me and I simply need to re set the tank.

    Old habits die hard.

    Once you allow algae to established well in the tank, then getting them out can be tough but straight forward, it's the same old thing, and it takes work to re set the tank good. Doesn't matter if it's Amano or a newbie, it's the same old thing over and over again.

    You have several species fo algae from the sounds of it.
    This is not really a green dust algae issue. If it's brown, it's either not the same or the tank has so much other algae growing, it's discoloring the GDA.

    The types of algae tell me you have more issues than this topic.
    Light alone is not it. I have 150w on a 20 gal tank......and I have high NO3/PO4/Traces etc

    I do not have algae issues, never have unless I stopped doing things like cleaning the filter, pruning, not dosing etc.

    I have to do something to the tank to get things to mess up.
    Now........while that is the case, I also know that when the levels are high, I still do not get algae.

    So........I know that those high levels do not cause algae in and of themselves, otherwise your notion that they do, even at very high light levels would apply. They would have to if we accepted your argument.

    So we can rule that out for a reason.
    No, as much as you want to be all special and unique, the algae do grow for definable reasons.

    There is something else you are not doing or assuming that you that is the cause.

    Often times is something in the mainteance, pruning, cleaning aspects and timing, maybe someone uprooted etc, did a large cleaning without following it up with a water change after etc.......

    We all slack off and let things get away from us over the years, but fixing it is the same old thing.

    1. Vac the gravel
    2.Pull up and preen and prune and pick off all algae on each plant stem.
    3. You can do these two things in 1/3 -1/2 tank stages every 3-7 days depending on how agressive you want to be.
    4.Clean all equipment, filters
    5. Do the water change at the end.
    6. Dose well thereafter
    7. If you see new algae, attack it now, don't wait
    8. Fluff the tank, use a comb on the hair grasses
    9. Don't assume the CO2 is right
    10. Large water changes frequently

    The more light you have, the faster things tend to get away from you and the harder it can be to root out an established algae issue/s.
    But the new growth of plants comes back fast also.

    I've never seen an algae that can stand up to this other than GDA, BGA, and GW, of which we have simple appproaches but still follow things up with similar methods to clean.

    It's just weeding the garden basically.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr




    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  4. freemann

    freemann Junior Poster

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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    Well Tom believe it or not I have done all this a 100 times CO2 is on the sky, I clean vacum (surface only) mechanical filters get changed every 3-4 days (50 micron microfilters). I do it all still this algaes (there are in small amounts mind you) are there ready to attack. I am adding and testing all and there are tons of all no it's not my mistake and even if it is, it is some weird far out thing, I can't fathom, here algaes grow together with the plants and that's it.
    I used Co2 in most of this tanks and I did not only grow swords.

    Well I never allowed algae to establish itself, it just seems that all this ferts in the tank allow it to be always ready to come in.

    Well fastest algae in this tank is this brown dust, the rest are in minimal amounts but still always around, someone else by observing the tank would say I have no algae, my point is that with all this stuff dumped in the tank and under all this light algae waits in the corner no matter how fast the plants grow at least in my setup.
    You know, I wish I was sure aswell but I am not. Well in my case this algaes are ready to grow as well as the plants and I do all stated in your list everything, I tried to be very carefull, I follow you posts and I know most of this anyway. Tom I did not do this yesterday I do it all my life. Consider this if I did something wrong plants would not grow here they do grow really fast but with lots of work to reset the tank all the time.
    I don't want to be all special and unique but I don't want to start wondering if I am in some way a moron, I am just stating the facts and other people I talk to, have similar problems. So something is not considered here.
    I don't want to dismiss your research and observations but something maybe not that simple in different tanks.
    :)
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    aftyer doing 100's of tanks and solving more problems than I can skae a stick at, I've never met an algae issue I have not been albe to solve in person.

    Ever......that goes for ponds, lakes also, specialized public aquarium systems, you name it.

    I'm not doubting your experience here.
    What I am saying is that even myself Amano, Senske's , everyone.....we all over look things and doubting one's own abilities is a sign of wisdom.

    I have been called "Tom Doubtful" because I doubt myself the most. but this is a good thing.

    I know the type of algae you are getting.
    If there is no organic leftovers as you say, and you are adding KNO3 to 20-30ppm a week, and the gravel is fair clean/filter, and you do large water changes, how can the BGA enter into the tank without some poor management on your part at some point in the past allowing it to persist?

    BGA never once grew till I started messing with low NO3. Adding higher NO3 after killing it addresses that.

    I've dealt with many tanks also, same pattern.

    But let's look at your tank and the layout and contents.
    I can offer you some things to try out to see if you can beat the algae back.

    If you have done the above series of steps, try this:
    Do the cleaning, large water change etc.
    Use a comb and scrub all the algae off before the water change, then do the change.

    Next, when you refill the tank, do not add any ferts.
    Wait 1-2 days, add the ferts at night(all except for the traces, add then in the AM). Do a water change now within 12 hours and fluff all the algae that you can find and clean the galss well also.

    You do this a few times, this should help the plants and mess with the algae.
    Maybe you have tried this??

    You can also mega dose the day before a water change and run light the rest of the week.

    Try packing more plants, even the cheap ones till things stablize. Add floating plants to block all the light below is another method that works quite well.
    Nothing like water sprite.

    Once the tank bounces back, then the normal routine of EI should work fine.
    But getting it to this point is key.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  6. wapfish

    wapfish Prolific Poster

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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    Tom, two things.

    First, you've said in the past that plants do not outcompete algae since they are in very different niches (elephants/mice argument). So why then would adding lots of cheap plants with high nutrient requirements be expected to help in this situation (or in startup tanks, where the same thing is recommended) if it isn't it to try and limit nutrient availability to algae?

    Second, is it possible that a difference between your tanks and those of others might be something like background ammonia levels (fish stocking) and/or dissolved organics (pollution/redox levels)? Both of these are water quality issues. Might it not be easier for you to recover from an algae infestation if you generally run a cleaner tank?
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    The idea to get more plants to solve the algae issue is not direct.
    the nutrients are still at high levels and non limiting levels.

    The issue is preventing low amounts of NH4 that induces new algal growth.
    Plants and algae do compete for light if they compete for any one thing.

    Adding more plants also adds more O2.

    Yes, a cleaner tank is easier to recover from, there is some bounce back from the algae, but if you follow up with large water changes, this is taken care of.

    Amano, Jeff Senske, myself....we suggest many frequent large water changes.

    It's just good aquatic plant husbantry.

    The key is stopping new algae growth.
    Folks with consistent presistent algae growth after cleaning are not doing something not right.

    I've done this way too many times not to know this. And yes, I believed many things in past much like Freedman and dozen other unknowns just like him.

    I cannot see everything via the web, but I can isolate a few things and give remedies. In person, there's no algae issue I cannot address.
    Patience and trying new things step wise will help isolate and address persistent algal issues though.

    But if the person gets pissed off and stops taking the advice, then there's nothing you can do.

    I tell myself things I do not want to hear also:)
    But if one thing does not work, we keep after it in a different management approach. But good plant growth is not something you will want to stop doing, you can starve the weeds for a few days/blackout etc, but I've never needed to do that except with BGA.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr










    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  8. jrneuzil

    jrneuzil Member

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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    This thread is starting to remind me of the near the end Compuserve days of Albert Thiel and reef tanks. Folks started to shoot the messenger when it did not work in their tanks. Many forgot how we got as far as we did with reef tanks back then and stated to look for different answers.
    I don't know why, but that just jumped to my mind.

    JR
     
  9. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    Yes, that is often the case but I'm wise to that situation.
    I think at some point after keeping tanks some time, we all fall into that trap.

    The only way out is to be aware, no one can tell you:)

    There is a certain amount of inherent variability, but it's not so large that noxious algae attacks your tank.

    I just have not seen evidence to support that in practical terms, I do not discount the possibility, but I also know it has to be exceedingly rare and to date, I've never seen it in person.

    I've worked with 2-3 dozen folks who felt and thought precisely like Freedman here. I was one of of those people myself actually.
    I beat my head for about 2-3 years before I figured it out.

    That's one reason I do not give up and keep trying different methods and suggestions till the aquarist has success.
    I do not like to let folks fall through the cracks and tend to seek the harder problems as they are more challenging.

    But we all do get personal when we say something and it seems like they do not believe you. I just try it anyway even if I do not believe it.

    There are many variables in the hobby. Personal habits play a huge role there as well. EI helps rectify some of it, but ferts alone are only part of the issue.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  10. freemann

    freemann Junior Poster

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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    Well blinds me if I know what I am doing wrong, apart from the fact that I don't have a rich substrate (just laterite-peat), tons of light tons of CO2 and ferts. As for water changes 2 a week I think are more than a lot. The tank does get "dirty" all the time.

    Well let me saw you some photos:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Well I have tried every consivable combination, PO4 2 ppm lots of NO3, Additional K from that from KNO3, TE, tons of flourish, Additional boron, Mg.
    The algae still lurks.
    You are invited whenever you come to the Greek island there is a house for you here. :)
    I didn't believe anything I just followed what you said but my past experiences (not habbit) is there aswell.
    If you refer to me I am not pissed off I just don't know what advice to follow cause there is nothing to do that I haven't done.
    So what am I suposed to do keep silent? I am just describing some facts that I see in my tank that is all, I am not forgeting anything. EI is suppose to be a simple approach, here things seem more complicated.
    I don't feel anything I just described a condition the way I perceived it, feeling is a subjective personal condition I just state my observations. I just hope EI is not a religion cause I am deeply atheist.
    No personal habits are involved here.
    We will see what happens next.
    Freemann :)
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    Thanks for the photo's, you are going to hate me, but it's CO2.
    You might not believe it, but that growth I've seen 1000 times and the algae that's there is only something that will grow with poor CO2.

    That and frequency and tenacity of the algae you have really does point that way also.

    I'll take you up on the stay when I get over to Greece. I may go to Italy here soon, I actually lived in Dubrovinik back in 1979 as a kid. Everyone thought I was German. Americans never went ot Yugoslavia back then.

    No, I know you are just frustrated Freeman, I was pissed off when it happened to me. And I was pissed off for quite some time.

    To some EI appears to be a religion, heck, it's just a simple way to add ferts and stabilize them. Nothing more than that.

    I'll tell you this, it's the CO2.
    The EI will rule out of the nutrients.

    At this point you probably do not believe it, but myself Erik, Jeff, Amano, we all get burned by CO2 and can become complacent about it.
    The algae you have is extremely indicative of low CO2, and the routines, cleaning etc water changes all suggest it's not a lack of nutrients, the algae and plants also do not suggest NH4 as the source cause for the algae either in the tank, you have plenty of plant biomass, it's just not growing well.

    We know beyond most any doubt it's not the light or nutrients.
    What happens when you add more nutrients to a nutrient limited system? You get more CO2 uptake.

    That's why many folks had less algae if they switched to EI.
    The plants are nutrient limited and use much less CO2.

    That is not something many folks catch.

    But back to your tank, try the CO2 mist with a spray bar along the back wall on the bottom shooting the mist right out into the plant beds.

    You can change it later, but for now if you have a small powerhead etc, feed the CO2 into the suction side, clean real good one day and then add it.

    Add till you measure at least 30ppm in the water.
    For KH, measure the tap at equilibrium. Let the tap water sit for 24 hours.
    Measure both the KH and pH.

    See if the measured value correspond to the pH/Kh chart within a few ppm.

    You can go back and remove this if it works well and then you'll know it's the CO2 then, if not, then the tap is next.

    We are not at the end of the rope, we have several more things we can still do to help.

    If the Crypts are doing better, and maybe one or two stem plants are doing reall good compared to most, then it's low CO2 also.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  12. wapfish

    wapfish Prolific Poster

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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    OK. I see the source of the confusion now. When you say the plants are "preventing low amounts of NH4 that induces new algal growth", this really means plants and algae are competing for NH4, doesn't it? Since the desired result is that the plants should win, their biomass is increased to give them a competitive advantage. So, there are at least two things plants and algae compete for, light and NH4. (Walstad would also say Fe, but that's better saved for another discussion.)

    For the record, I totally believe you when you say you can personally fix just about any tank. On the other hand, I'm not convinced that there isn't a joker in here somewhere to the extent that there could be one or more things automatically built into your personal habits of cleaning, fertilizing, pruning or whatever, to which you are blind and which is critical to success.

    Here's just one example of the kind of thing I'm talking about. Maybe there really is a difference in the response of some algae-ridden tanks to Fluorish vs other trace element mixes. There's all that protein hydrolysate in Flourish and the iron is only weakly chelated. If you personally tend to use TMG as your trace source, maybe you'll tend not to see the problems freeman is having. I know (at least I've read) that you've dumped in tons of Flourish and never had an algae problem. That's fine and good, but the real question is have you dumped in tons of Flourish while a tank was algae infested and still managed to clean it up? A tank with very little algae to begin with might be relatively immune to treatments that could mess up an infested tank.

    Anyway, this has been a very interesting thread. I liked the way you gave us a blow-by-blow account of your approach to trying to learning how to deal with GDA andcan understand the frustration of freeman also. Maybe you should give serious thought to going out there to his place in Greece. It'd be a pretty cool vacation and it'd be a real blowout to see you fix up his tank.
     
  13. freemann

    freemann Junior Poster

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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    Well one thing I know for sure is that it is not CO2 deficiency. I dump 6 Kg of CO2 every 20 days in this 100 gal tank (checked for leakages, none). Co2 defuses perfectly not a single bubble comes out form the output. There are almost 200 bubbles when the pinpoint ph controller works, plant start to bubble an hour if not right away after lights turn on. And the whole tank is like a campaign after 4-5 hours even the hairgrass bubbles. The kh is 8 and the ph meter turns off Co2 at 6.47 and on at 6.55 (I lowered the thresholds per you instructions last time we talked). Tom it is not CO2 believe me. By the way yes I don't do the mist but all works so well on diffusion and mist requires new setup in this monster this is why I try to avoid it. It is something else.
     
  14. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    Well, then what about the tap?
    You use tap or RO?

    If you have plenty of light, CO2, nutrients, do weekly 2x a week water changes, the plant should grow unless there is something in the tap and it cannot be copper because is selective with killing algae before it kills/hurts plants, especially crypts which tolerant very high Cu levels.

    It would need to be non toxic to algae and toxic or mildly so to plants, that's going to be extremely rare. I'm doubting the tap.

    Plants only need those 3 things to grow and according to you, you have all 3 and pearling is good, so why do you still have algae issues?

    I'd really try a good cleaning, comb the hair grass, fluff the plants good, large water change, 80% etc, refill etc, then not add anything for 2 days and no light/CO2. Do another water change after, then dose again and turn on the CO2/lights.

    Sometimes back to back cleaning, dosing, water changes daily for 2-3 days can knock the algae way back.

    Sound slike you simply have a weed that's well established, but the algae tend to die off if you provide good conditions for the plants.

    And those plants.......they are not healthy looking and have a green crust on them and a brown film after a few of the new leaves grow out. Most leaves are also curled.

    Your GH is good? Mg/Ca? K+?
    You can add a little more and some more traces also.

    So what precisely are you adding to the tank?
    What is the KH and GH?
    Can you stand to add more CO2?

    Can you switch a few plant spcies out and replace them back later?

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  15. freemann

    freemann Junior Poster

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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    Tons of light yes, Co2 yes.
    Nutrients all added after each of the 2 50% each WC of the 108 gal weekly:
    NO3: 9 ppm
    Additional KH2SO4 one teaspoon.
    PO4 2ppm sometimes 1 ppm
    Flourish 10 ml daily
    DTPA iron 7% strength, 2 times per week between WC's 1/32 (sometimes 1/16) of the teaspoon in relation with yellowing.
    Mg: 5ppm.
    Boric acid 1/64 of the teaspoon

    Mains water contains: 7,5 ppm NO3, PO4 0.76 ppm, Ca 80ppm, 0,12 ppm total Fe, Kh 8, Gh 12, Mg calculated from Edwards excel calculator, in relation to Gh 12 and Ca 80ppm, gives 0 ppm Mg in mains water.
    Ok now some measurements in different days (each value separated by a comma in each fert) with our hanna meters.
    NO3: 19,5, 21, 24, 23 pretty stable
    PO4: 1,3, 0,9, 1,89, 2,45 always there.
    Total Iron: 0,14 to 0,9 this one I have difficulty to target a higher reading.
    K: from 15 to 20+ ppm
    Me also, just water saturated with calcium (I don't even leave in the town here not town mains, just local water, deep well with pump.
    Cleaning habits: I clean each leaf of my anubias plus fluff, bottom clean every time I do WC, I always comb the hairgrass as well, I am really typical on this habits just to take out of the equation this factor as a cause of the algae.
    Ok light 30 cm above water MH 3x150 10 hours single end bulbs uv coated but with no protective glass (can UV been burning the plants?).
    Plants that suffer most: Hygrophilas, Alternatheras
    Plants that get infected most from algae: Anubias, Hairgrass, species of Bacopa, ferns (strange enough ferns and hygrophilas seem to suffer most since I upped the ferts, CO2.
    Yellowing: almost constant in various plants, darker veins as well, hairgrass, hygrophilas, townoi (condition can get really better by adding more iron but tank gets "hot" at the same time.
    Growth: All bubble, grow pretty fast with few exceptions even the ones that are considered difficult are multiplying within the algae creping in problems (if ferts weren't there how all this townoi, macrandra, wallichi, stellatas aromaticas grow?)
    Filtration 2500lt specified pump, 50 micron micro filters changed in every WC, huge bioball containing biofilter slow flow, UV 18 W 24/24 hours 1200 lt/h different pump (not fast for this wattage checked), additional pump just for circulation 1200 lt switches on every other hour, auto dosing off at the moment I do all by hand to be sure heating cable ready to be turned of for additional winter heating ( reckon intensifying decomposition.
    Substrate fluorite, peat 2 years old (and no I am not going to remove it to wash :))
    Water colour: very rarely crystal clear always some murkiness but nothing extreme, no surface film.
    Well really difficult to stock plants here, some species have come only once, few people to exchange prolly less than 5 here, this is why I wanted plants like stellatas to grow cause few chances to find.[/quote]
    My ex living room tank I am renovating so not that much space to move as well, huge lump of sinersia in this tank grows fast.

    Sorry for being a pain in the a.. Tom no ill intention intended I just try to sort things, and I wonder at the same time .
    :)
     
  16. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    I still think it is CO2, the fast growing plants really say this and we know beyond any doubt that the KNO3/KH2PO4 are right.

    CO2 is the one variable I'm not too trusting on.
    and the plants and algae you have sure suggest it.
    I've seen the same patterns, same algae, same plants respond to lower CO2.

    Nothing else makes sense.
    Even if you believe it to be correct, try adding more anyhow.

    There are only two possible things, namely Mg and CO2.

    The lighting can be changed some also if you want. You can stagger the 3 lights for 8 hours each, with each one coming on for only 8 hours but a total of 1012 hours.

    Yellowing can be from a number of things.
    I do not think you lack Fe.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  17. detlef

    detlef Member

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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    Hi freeman

    >Mg calculated from Edwards excel calculator, in relation to Gh 12 and Ca 80ppm, gives 0 ppm Mg in mains water.<

    and

    >Mg: 5ppm.<

    where does Mg come from? Did I miss something here? If it's at 5ppm and Ca at 80ppm it could be too low. You reported that once you tried raising Mg levels. For how long did you maintain elevated Mg levels in the tank in question?

    I suspect you introduce high levels of Si which cannot be used up completely between wc's. I'd recommend trying to up Mg again with only weekly wc's. If the color of the micron fleece is brownish when you take it out then it should be diatoms.

    Just my 2cents.

    Regards,
    Detlef
     
  18. freemann

    freemann Junior Poster

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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    Detlef
    Mg 5 ppm, I add together with all else every time, this is what I meant.
    Mg I tried to add another 5 ppm a few days ago after WC, waliichi stanted the next day I reckon it was the additional Mg but can't verifiy this. I am aware of the 4 to 1 Ca-Mg ratio, but after talking to Edward of the amount of Mg I add he said that as long as there is Mg around it is ok so i left it there. Still I have never tried increasing Mg to higher levels than the 5 ppm I add for long periods only sort ones in the past.
    Silicates, I thought of it aswell but why this dust algae appeared only together with the increased fert regime and not before (maybe Si in the water in wc helped to express the algae, still it seems others complain of this shity algae aswell)? It is a fact I did less water changes before. Something else also is the fact that together with the appearance of the dust on the 3rd day after the wc film on glass thickens and other greenish spot crusty algae appear aswell. By the way it is dust I am sure of it, very easily removed, rough surfaced film, brownish color as you said.

    Tom I will try to add even more CO2 I hope fish do not jump out of the tank.

    Freemann :)
     
  19. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    You may have already answered this, but do you check to see how much your CO2 drops the PH? Take a tank water sample, let it outgas for a few hours, measure the PH and compare to the in-tank PH. It should be .8 to 1.1 lower in the tank to have enough CO2. This technique removes the effect of other acids in the water or something amiss with the KH reading.
     
  20. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Green dust algae and herbivores

    Si is not going to influence anything here.
    Diatoms are not going to use up the Si nor are they a serious issue in any planted tank unless something is massively wrong and it's always CO2 related, not enough.

    I've seen tanks like that, I've seen tanks like this.
    It was CO2.

    I added 10ppm of Mg from MgSO4, I never got the stunting Edward claimed.
    I did get some melting from one Tonia species only, the other two where unaffected oddly.

    Argh! Right there, that's a lack of cO2 given you add plenty of PO4.
    Good old algae can tell a lot.


    I think this will solve the issue handedly. I'm virtually certain it's low CO2.
    Too many bioindicators suggest it.

    Just adjust it up slowly, turn it off at night, make sure there is good mixing/current to disperse the CO2. I don't know how many times I became complacent myself with CO2, many folks do.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
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