Gravel as foundation
- Thread starter dannyfish
- Start date
Why is it that people dosing EI spend money on 'fancy' substrates? I'm thinking this is really just for cosmetic reasons and, I suppose the nutrient enriched substrates, e.g. Flourite, provide a 'nutrient back up' in case EI dosing is missed for whatever reason (lazyness, forgetfulness, busyness etc).
Is that correct?
Is that correct?
Putting the laziness and forgetting to dose aside.
I think soil helps to grow carpet plants easier.
And it provides all around nutrients. I mean you can be quite sure
that there will be all micro nutrients presented in adequate amount.
I said that because I'm convinced that my (all gravel) tank's root cause is the
lacking of boron. I mixed my traces mix following TPN recipe and
found that I had to dose 6x the EI amount (15cc per day for 20 gallon instead of 2.5)
to prevent Stargrass from shoot melting, broken blacken leaves.
Vallisneria shoots and leaves are also curled/cupped.
After increasing the B to CSM+B level (about 17.7x* the amount of TPN)
and seeing improvements, I increased the B to 2x amount of CSM+B.
Now I can dose at 5cc per day without boosting Fe, Ca, or playing with
the level of NO3, Mg, and of course, CO2.
It has been 1 week already and the situation seems to be improved.
If I can go for a month with this dosing level. Then I'm sure B is my problem.
*Based on mixing 30 grams (2 tablespoons) of CSM+B with 500 CC water.
http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/dosing.html
Q:Why 2 tablespoons instead of 1?
A: Greg bases his EI dosing on it.
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2819-EI-light-for-those-less-techy-folks
You can prove that by his 1/16 teaspoon = 5cc.
If 1/16 teaspoon = 5cc.
Then 500cc has 1/16x100 teaspoons.
Which is 6.25 teaspoons.
6.25 teaspoons = 2.08 tablespoons.
This solution of CSM+B has B 0.0708% by weight (assuming 1cc = 1 gram).
While B in TPN is 0.004%.
0.0708÷0.004 = 17.7
This is approximate, since 1 cc of TPN = 1.04 gram.
But it's close enough for our use and estimation.
I think soil helps to grow carpet plants easier.
And it provides all around nutrients. I mean you can be quite sure
that there will be all micro nutrients presented in adequate amount.
I said that because I'm convinced that my (all gravel) tank's root cause is the
lacking of boron. I mixed my traces mix following TPN recipe and
found that I had to dose 6x the EI amount (15cc per day for 20 gallon instead of 2.5)
to prevent Stargrass from shoot melting, broken blacken leaves.
Vallisneria shoots and leaves are also curled/cupped.
After increasing the B to CSM+B level (about 17.7x* the amount of TPN)
and seeing improvements, I increased the B to 2x amount of CSM+B.
Now I can dose at 5cc per day without boosting Fe, Ca, or playing with
the level of NO3, Mg, and of course, CO2.
It has been 1 week already and the situation seems to be improved.
If I can go for a month with this dosing level. Then I'm sure B is my problem.
*Based on mixing 30 grams (2 tablespoons) of CSM+B with 500 CC water.
http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/dosing.html
Q:Why 2 tablespoons instead of 1?
A: Greg bases his EI dosing on it.
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2819-EI-light-for-those-less-techy-folks
You can prove that by his 1/16 teaspoon = 5cc.
If 1/16 teaspoon = 5cc.
Then 500cc has 1/16x100 teaspoons.
Which is 6.25 teaspoons.
6.25 teaspoons = 2.08 tablespoons.
This solution of CSM+B has B 0.0708% by weight (assuming 1cc = 1 gram).
While B in TPN is 0.004%.
0.0708÷0.004 = 17.7
This is approximate, since 1 cc of TPN = 1.04 gram.
But it's close enough for our use and estimation.
Last edited by a moderator:
Sure, and they can grow quite well.
It really depends what you want. I just switched to a different substrate from plain old gravel (after 3 years), but I could grow just about any type of stem plant or crypt as long as I was diligently dosing and watching my CO2 and kept my light in check. I had a harder time growing carpeting plants and after awhile wanted something that was more user friendly to scape with. It is a pain to plant many carpeting plants in gravel. However, I found the Staurogyne to be good in my gravel base tank although and much easier to work with than HC or Microsword.
You really need to be diligent with your dosing and watch your CO2 in a new gravel tank without a mulm buildup, because your substrate is not a good source of nutrients. That can be remedied to a degree with the osmocote ice cube trick. I found the more fall backs I had to combat my schedule/laziness the better off my tank was.
It really depends what you want. I just switched to a different substrate from plain old gravel (after 3 years), but I could grow just about any type of stem plant or crypt as long as I was diligently dosing and watching my CO2 and kept my light in check. I had a harder time growing carpeting plants and after awhile wanted something that was more user friendly to scape with. It is a pain to plant many carpeting plants in gravel. However, I found the Staurogyne to be good in my gravel base tank although and much easier to work with than HC or Microsword.
You really need to be diligent with your dosing and watch your CO2 in a new gravel tank without a mulm buildup, because your substrate is not a good source of nutrients. That can be remedied to a degree with the osmocote ice cube trick. I found the more fall backs I had to combat my schedule/laziness the better off my tank was.
You Are Just Jealous As The Voices Only Speak To Me
Hi,
I agree with both Scottward and Nipat.
Being schizophrenic has its advantages. :gw
While lately I have become enamored of enriched substrates, among my favorite tanks, two are plain sand one is enameled gravel and another is just gravel I dug up near Decker, Colorado 20 odd years ago.
I am not sure whether the enriched substrate thing is just a passing fancy or not. For years in the '60's and '70's the use of garden soil and muck from the swamps was common. :gw
My gravitating toward enriched substrates likely has as much to do with my current fascination with root-feeders as anything. Enriched substrates allow quicker, surer growth of heavy vascular plants much sooner than tanks with inert substrates.
The flip side is that any sand or gravel tank more than 6 cm (2.5 inch) deep after six months to a couple of years is generally as rich, particularly the sand substrates, and as supportive of the aforementioned heavy vascular plants as well as the “carpeting” plants.
Biollante
Hi,
I agree with both Scottward and Nipat.
Being schizophrenic has its advantages. :gwWhile lately I have become enamored of enriched substrates, among my favorite tanks, two are plain sand one is enameled gravel and another is just gravel I dug up near Decker, Colorado 20 odd years ago.
I am not sure whether the enriched substrate thing is just a passing fancy or not. For years in the '60's and '70's the use of garden soil and muck from the swamps was common. :gw
My gravitating toward enriched substrates likely has as much to do with my current fascination with root-feeders as anything. Enriched substrates allow quicker, surer growth of heavy vascular plants much sooner than tanks with inert substrates.
The flip side is that any sand or gravel tank more than 6 cm (2.5 inch) deep after six months to a couple of years is generally as rich, particularly the sand substrates, and as supportive of the aforementioned heavy vascular plants as well as the “carpeting” plants.
Biollante
I once had plain inert gravel but switched to Flourite as I had trouble getting E.Tenellus to carpet. The stuff is taking off now, but I'm still not sure whether it's because I am dosing CO2 better, the iron rich substrate, or a combination of both? I'm thinking a combinationo of both? Flourite is a pretty decent middle-of-the-road option isn't it? I believe you can also mix Flourite 50-50 with plain gravel?