This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Gravel as foundation

Discussion in 'Are you new to aquatic plants? Start here' started by dannyfish, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. dannyfish

    dannyfish Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    11:23 PM
    Hi

    I have a question..

    Having EI dosing method + sufficient Co2 + sufficient lighting, will the plant still grow well in gravel instead of soil foundation?

    Thank
     
  2. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    11:23 PM
    Yes

    Hi,

    Yes! :gw

    Biollante
     
  3. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    9
    Local Time:
    11:23 PM
    Why is it that people dosing EI spend money on 'fancy' substrates? I'm thinking this is really just for cosmetic reasons and, I suppose the nutrient enriched substrates, e.g. Flourite, provide a 'nutrient back up' in case EI dosing is missed for whatever reason (lazyness, forgetfulness, busyness etc).

    Is that correct?
     
  4. nipat

    nipat Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    665
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    11:23 PM
    Putting the laziness and forgetting to dose aside.

    I think soil helps to grow carpet plants easier.
    And it provides all around nutrients. I mean you can be quite sure
    that there will be all micro nutrients presented in adequate amount.

    I said that because I'm convinced that my (all gravel) tank's root cause is the
    lacking of boron. I mixed my traces mix following TPN recipe and
    found that I had to dose 6x the EI amount (15cc per day for 20 gallon instead of 2.5)
    to prevent Stargrass from shoot melting, broken blacken leaves.
    Vallisneria shoots and leaves are also curled/cupped.

    After increasing the B to CSM+B level (about 17.7x* the amount of TPN)
    and seeing improvements, I increased the B to 2x amount of CSM+B.
    Now I can dose at 5cc per day without boosting Fe, Ca, or playing with
    the level of NO3, Mg, and of course, CO2.

    It has been 1 week already and the situation seems to be improved.
    If I can go for a month with this dosing level. Then I'm sure B is my problem.


    *Based on mixing 30 grams (2 tablespoons) of CSM+B with 500 CC water.
    http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/dosing.html

    Q:Why 2 tablespoons instead of 1?
    A: Greg bases his EI dosing on it.
    http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2819-EI-light-for-those-less-techy-folks

    You can prove that by his 1/16 teaspoon = 5cc.
    If 1/16 teaspoon = 5cc.
    Then 500cc has 1/16x100 teaspoons.
    Which is 6.25 teaspoons.
    6.25 teaspoons = 2.08 tablespoons.

    This solution of CSM+B has B 0.0708% by weight (assuming 1cc = 1 gram).
    While B in TPN is 0.004%.

    0.0708÷0.004 = 17.7

    This is approximate, since 1 cc of TPN = 1.04 gram.
    But it's close enough for our use and estimation.
     
    #4 nipat, Sep 1, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2010
  5. fjf888

    fjf888 Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    11:23 PM
    Sure, and they can grow quite well.

    It really depends what you want. I just switched to a different substrate from plain old gravel (after 3 years), but I could grow just about any type of stem plant or crypt as long as I was diligently dosing and watching my CO2 and kept my light in check. I had a harder time growing carpeting plants and after awhile wanted something that was more user friendly to scape with. It is a pain to plant many carpeting plants in gravel. However, I found the Staurogyne to be good in my gravel base tank although and much easier to work with than HC or Microsword.

    You really need to be diligent with your dosing and watch your CO2 in a new gravel tank without a mulm buildup, because your substrate is not a good source of nutrients. That can be remedied to a degree with the osmocote ice cube trick. I found the more fall backs I had to combat my schedule/laziness the better off my tank was.
     
  6. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    11:23 PM
    You Are Just Jealous As The Voices Only Speak To Me

    Hi,

    I agree with both Scottward and Nipat. :p Being schizophrenic has its advantages. :gw

    While lately I have become enamored of enriched substrates, among my favorite tanks, two are plain sand one is enameled gravel and another is just gravel I dug up near Decker, Colorado 20 odd years ago.

    I am not sure whether the enriched substrate thing is just a passing fancy or not. For years in the '60's and '70's the use of garden soil and muck from the swamps was common. :gw

    My gravitating toward enriched substrates likely has as much to do with my current fascination with root-feeders as anything. Enriched substrates allow quicker, surer growth of heavy vascular plants much sooner than tanks with inert substrates. :)

    The flip side is that any sand or gravel tank more than 6 cm (2.5 inch) deep after six months to a couple of years is generally as rich, particularly the sand substrates, and as supportive of the aforementioned heavy vascular plants as well as the “carpeting” plants. :cool:

    Biollante
     
  7. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    9
    Local Time:
    11:23 PM
    I once had plain inert gravel but switched to Flourite as I had trouble getting E.Tenellus to carpet. The stuff is taking off now, but I'm still not sure whether it's because I am dosing CO2 better, the iron rich substrate, or a combination of both? I'm thinking a combinationo of both? Flourite is a pretty decent middle-of-the-road option isn't it? I believe you can also mix Flourite 50-50 with plain gravel?
     
  8. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    11:23 PM
    Yes!

    Hi,

    Yes to all of the above!:cool:

    Biollante
     
Loading...

Share This Page