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GH and KH increasing like mad

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by jonny_ftm, Dec 28, 2009.

  1. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Hi,

    In the nano on my signature, I used many stones without testing for the presence of calcium. I noticed that despite using a KH 2 and GH 5 source water + 50% weekly WC, I end up with a GH 8 and KH 5 in the tank

    I tried to change source water to GH 3 and KH 0. Did a 50% WC then 25% WC for 3 successive days. Today, still GH 8 and KH 4.5 :confused:

    I tested the stones with some HCL, and they are very calcareous

    I though that when following EI and 50% WC, calcareous stones are not an issue. But, in my case, those GH and KH boosts are impossible to lower.

    Also, does Flourite Black sand increase the GH?
     
  2. csmith

    csmith Guest

    I don't know about the rest of it, but I did quite a bit of research on Flourite Black before settling for it and I never came across it having any effect like that on the water.
     
    #2 csmith, Dec 28, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
  3. nipat

    nipat Guru Class Expert

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    Hi, I've seen some discussions about stone testing from EI users (Rex Grigg is one).
    So I think it can be an issue if you really need specific GH and KH.
    But GH8 and KH5 actually are generally preferred parameter.

    You concern about CRS?
     
  4. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    In fact, I'm concerned about CRS. In specialized asian forums, where they breed them the most and after discussing with local breeders, a high KH can be an issue. In Asia, they have very soft water.

    Also, I tend for this tank to progressively do a WC/1-2 months. If the KH gets that high with weekly 50% WC, GH and KH would be impossible to manage with less WC

    Finally, another issue is the water to use for WC. With a source water of KH 0 and GH 3, I end up with a +5° in Gh and KH. For my CRS, it is like a new adaptation after every WC. I'm getting deaths after each WC now despite I began making them with drops (turns to be too much work)

    The RCS on the other hand are doing very fine, no problems. CRS are much more sensitive to change in parameters. The highest the grade, the worst it is

    I got myself today some petrified wood. i tested it with the HCl 10% solution and it looks to be ok. I'll redo the scape where the rocks are. Sadely, i expect to loose many CRS during this intervention. But better do it now than later
     
  5. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Why not bait the shrimp out? Simply find a food they'll come out for (perhaps at night), set it in a net on the substrate, and let them feed. Do this for a few nights, and get as many of those valuable CRS out as you can.

    For that matter, why not spawn the CRS in a simpler tank until you're done setting up a new one completely? I avoid fauna for the first month of a tank simply for unknown variables as much as for aquasoil ammonia spikes.
     
  6. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    You're right. I should have made a simple aquarium just for breeding them, with just some mosses floating or on immersed small wood parts.
    I learnt the lesson now...

    I'll try to empty the tank until 2-3 cm water height. I'll then tilt it to the left to 20-30° gently. Shrimps will hurry to water. I should be able to work on the right side with no trouble, normally.

    The problem is that they'll go through another change in water parameters. I'll try to make it the smoother I can

    Let you know.


    Do you think the rocks can really cause such an uncontrollable jump in GH and KH? Would they infiltrated the soil with all the calcium carbonate with the risk that the soil will continue to release it even when stones are removed?
     
  7. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Someone needs to make ferrous shrimp or something; just fish em' out with a magfloat. :p

    I wouldn't have guessed that stone to buffer so quickly from what I can see in pictures. For that matter though, I thought it wouldn't have reacted to HCL. I've seen plenty of rock buffer that fast, even some ADA stuff. Unless you really know your petrology, it's probably best to test with an acid every time.

    I forgot to test the rock in one of my tanks as well; got too confident. I may be paying for it in the future when it fills.
     
  8. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Thank you Philosophos,

    I never though rocks could buffer so quickely and in an impossible way to control. Tom, often said that with 50% weekly WC, the buffering will be minimal. In my case, it looks like to be instant, or at least in 24h, as I tested.

    I got them from an aquaristic shop, and never thought I'll have to test them. It is the last time I get or buy a rock without my HCl bottle in the pocket. Hopefully, things will be solved with petrified wood

    I'm just anxious about the soil being infiltred with all the calcium carbonate leaked from the stones. Do you have any expierience with that or it will be only a minimal contamination?
     
  9. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    I've never had the issue myself; I've usually used tested stone that I use. I also look for igneous rock without signs of oxidization. Anything with a microcrystaline quartz structure is a good place to start looking, which is what you've done with petrified wood.

    I doubt if the soil would be messed up much; people seem to recover their usual parameters after removing the problem stone. I'm not sure what goes on with the cations/ligand exchange though; I wouldn't be surprised if some calcium is retained, though perhaps in a more inert form. I really need to work on my sediment understanding better, but the learning curve is pretty steep; it's not like you just find guides for it sitting around like you do with other areas of aquarium interest.
     
  10. detlef

    detlef Subscriber

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    Hi,

    let me share my experience on a somewhat related matter. When I set up a new tank just about a month ago I was using pure tap for the first time (GH 19, KH 13) just to try my luck if plants could tolerate high mineral contents along with AS Amazonia and stones which are called mini landscape over here. They seem to be the same as yours jonny_ftm. Turned out they fizz like hell when tested today using HCL. Plants did not do much at all or slowly died away. No pearling, almost lost my HC. Furthermore the water is still taking on an ugly yellow color although I switched to my prevously used mixture of tap and distilled water some days ago. I'm now waiting for the plants to recover but lesson learned: Never use Amazonia along with stones that harden the water a good deal together with hard tap water!

    Best regards, Detlef
     
  11. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Hi,

    I didn't understand well. Did you remove the stones or no? You mean AS is still leaking CaCO3 after you removed the stones?
     
  12. detlef

    detlef Subscriber

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    Sorry if I wasn't clear enough:
    No, I did NOT remove the stones out the tank. I tested a spare one the other day which was of the same kind. And bloody hell was it fizzing strongly. And no, I did NOT mean at all that AS is leaching any minerals. But still Amazonia keeps staining the water yellow (started to do so right after set-up) even after I've changed many hundreds! of liters on a 20g. Remember the tank is only six weeks old.

    As Philosophus already recommended remove the stones and you should be done. Since I don't see any improvement in my plant growth to date expect me to do so as well. That is to say I've to start from scratch again. You never know which minerals stones might leach and there's hardly anyone who can tell the interaction of substrate and open water.

    Best regards, Detlef
     
    #12 detlef, Jan 1, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2010
  13. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Thank you both,

    I'm gonna remove these rocks in next couple days. I have 1-2 CRS dieing every week, some while they change skin :-(
    I can't change water as parameters are now too different. I have to solve it and the strongest ones should live :-(

    RCS, on the other side, are so happy
     
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