Gathering parts and info for wet dry filter, need advise and experience

bsantucci

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Aug 22, 2014
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Hi everyone,


I've been a lurker here for some time but am active on TPT. I've had my tank up for about 1.5 years now, but am now deciding to move on from cannisters to a wet dry filter setup. I've been slowly deciding on what to use for this. Can someone advise if the below will work and my ideas are correct


Tank is Mr. Aqua 48g.


HOB Overflow: Lifereef Single Slimline


Wet Dry Filter: Spare 10g tank I have with a wet dry kit I'm buying off ebay. Not sure if I can link ebay links here, but the seller has good reviews.


CO2: Pressurized CO2 and will run Cerges reactor in-line after the wet/dry.


Pump: Jebao DC-3000 (going with this as I believe it will be strong enough to handle the Cerges in-line


Return: Standard U-tube return with adjustable neck (may switch to spraybar later)


Aside from this I'm still learning before I set this up. I keep reading the Lifereef will not break siphon. That being said, do I still drill a hole in the return near the water line to avoid flooding?


For plumbing, should I go mostly PVC, Flex PVC, or can I use regular eheim tubing?


Is a 10g housing enough for a 48g tank? I think so, but want to be sure. I'm just going to have my heater in there, nothing more aside from bio balls(better than ceramic rings?) and sponge for mechanical filtration (is that correct?).


Is the Jebao too much flow for the Cerges to be run straight in line? I plan to tone down the Jebao to a lower setting. Wondering though if running a second pump from the wet/dry to the Cergest and back into the wet/dry for the Jebao to feed back in the tank is a better idea?


Thanks in advance for any insight and expertise you may lend!
 
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Mar 20, 2013
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PUMP: Jebao has a new DCT model of the DC pump, supposedly more efficient than the old DC models.


TUBING: flexible tubing would be easier to manage and install than hard PVC pipe.


SUMP SIZE: 10g is more than enough for 48 gallons of water. Consider sealing it to prevent gas from escaping.


MEDIA: it doesn't matter what it is as long as it allows efficient water pass-through. Round shapes generally better than rings due to better water flow through it.
 

rjordan393

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Mar 5, 2013
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For any tank that has an over flow to sump, it is best to drill a hole lightly below the natural water line of the tank at the suction (depending on tank size and sump capacity). Failure to do so will cause a flood in the event of a electrical power failure. You must determine the volume of your tank per inch of height and how much your sump can hold in the event of the power failure. In other words, if you place your suction intake low in the tank, then if there is a power failure, there is no way to break the syphon if your do not provide a suction break. A 1/4 inch hole will be enough.
 
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bsantucci

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Aug 22, 2014
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Solcielo lawrencia said:
PUMP: Jebao has a new DCT model of the DC pump, supposedly more efficient than the old DC models.

TUBING: flexible tubing would be easier to manage and install than hard PVC pipe.


SUMP SIZE: 10g is more than enough for 48 gallons of water. Consider sealing it to prevent gas from escaping.


MEDIA: it doesn't matter what it is as long as it allows efficient water pass-through. Round shapes generally better than rings due to better water flow through it.

Thanks for the Jebao info, I had no idea and I'll definitely go with that. Will routing my Cerges after the pump work with that pump? I think so, can't imagine that isn't strong enough to work in the fashion.


For the tubing is the ridged type tubing ok or is the black pond type tubing that is only semi flexible better? *edit* Looks like it's suction hoses for ponds is what I'd need for a 1" bulkhead connection.


Using my 10 will save me money, good to know!
 
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bsantucci

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Aug 22, 2014
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rjordan393 said:
For any tank that has an over flow to sump, it is best to drill a hole lightly below the natural water line of the tank at the suction (depending on tank size and sump capacity). Failure to do so will cause a flood in the event of a electrical power failure. You must determine the volume of your tank per inch of height and how much your sump can hold in the event of the power failure. In other words, if you place your suction intake low in the tank, then if there is a power failure, there is no way to break the syphon if your do not provide a suction break. A 1/4 inch hole will be enough.

Thanks for the reply! Now we are speaking of drilling the return line right, not in the overflow box? I saw a video Gerry made and his was drilled as such.
 

bsantucci

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Aug 22, 2014
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While I'm on the subject of Gerry, I saw his Cerges video and he said that he has the water flowing in the outlet of the water filter housing and out from the inlet? Is that the correct design for Cerges? I had mine routed the in to the in and out to the out. I'm wondering if that is why my Cerges did not see very efficient?
 
Mar 20, 2013
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Ribbed tubing causes a lot of flow restriction. Smooth tubing far less so since there is no edges to catch the flow.


There's no reason to route the inlet to the outlet of the Serge's design. If the flow is too high, the CO2 simply exits the chamber undissolved. You can do it that way, but it's best to turn the housing upside down to produce countercurrent.
 

gsjmia

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Ribbed hoses on barbed fittings are also prone to leaking (water travels out through the ribs-the barbed fitting won't stop it), unless you use a pool hose end cuff Its hard to find flexible hose that is not ribbed on the inside.


Probably too big, but Home Depot has 1 1/4 pool hose and you can buy fitted ends-then use a barbed fitting. Expensive and complicated.


Best thing for drains are the ready made 2' or 4' flex hoses http://www.thatpetplace.com/eshopps-flex-hose-4ft-1in?gclid=CjwKEAjwycaqBRCSorjE7ZewsmUSJABWzM54PQLGT6oVsSA5kgqkonBMbl7pXZYAwOs5T6CkLSFV5hoCZjrw_wcB&kwid=productads-plaid^98128999964-sku^237603-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^55213056044 these slip over 1" pvc (I use schedule 20) perfectly, with no clamp or barbed fitting needed.


For a 48 gallon supply lines from pump to tank, you don't need anywhere near that big, and 5/8's should do it. I use 1/2 pvc nipples and get vinyl hose that fits over the nipple. Key is two things: don't use a close nipple and push the hose until it is on a smooth (no seams) non-threaded area (water will creep through the threads) and use the correct size clamp (so it squeezes in a circle).


Many leaks are caused by using a hose clamp that is too big, when it finally tightenings it will tend to squeeze like a pair of plier, rather than in a circle.


You can also do the same with 3/4 nipples, if you can find the right vinyl.


If the vinyl is tight going over the nipple (you want it tight), heat it with a cigarette lighter.


Union Swing check valves last a long time and are easy to clean the valve and hoses:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/AQUARIUM-PLUMBING-True-Clear-Union-Check-Valve-1-2-INCH-TxT-THREAD-X-THREAD/181668103238?_trksid=p2054897.c100204.m3164&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140407115239%26meid%3D9ae7dec2f5ff4b79bef61610d2c146df%26pid%3D100204%26rk%3D8%26rkt%3D26%26sd%3D271562581235
 

bsantucci

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Aug 22, 2014
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gsjmia said:
Ribbed hoses on barbed fittings are also prone to leaking (water travels out through the ribs-the barbed fitting won't stop it), unless you use a pool hose end cuff Its hard to find flexible hose that is not ribbed on the inside.

Probably too big, but Home Depot has 1 1/4 pool hose and you can buy fitted ends-then use a barbed fitting. Expensive and complicated.


Best thing for drains are the ready made 2' or 4' flex hoses http://www.thatpetplace.com/eshopps-...id^55213056044 these slip over 1" pvc (I use schedule 20) perfectly, with no clamp or barbed fitting needed.


For a 48 gallon supply lines from pump to tank, you don't need anywhere near that big, and 5/8's should do it. I use 1/2 pvc nipples and get vinyl hose that fits over the nipple. Key is two things: don't use a close nipple and push the hose until it is on a smooth (no seams) non-threaded area (water will creep through the threads) and use the correct size clamp (so it squeezes in a circle).


Many leaks are caused by using a hose clamp that is too big, when it finally tightenings it will tend to squeeze like a pair of plier, rather than in a circle.


You can also do the same with 3/4 nipples, if you can find the right vinyl.


If the vinyl is tight going over the nipple (you want it tight), heat it with a cigarette lighter.


Union Swing check valves last a long time and are easy to clean the valve and hoses:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/201119126925...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


It comes with a 1" drain, but no bulkhead. What would you recommend for a connector for the drain? *edit*


Found a bulkhead on amazon with a 1" nipple actually that may work for the connector to the wet dry from the overflow. What do you all think? http://www.amazon.com/Lifegard-Aquatics-Double-Threaded-Bulkhead/dp/B0002DKAU0/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1431522393&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=1+inch+bulkhead+threaded


So I would get this, then find an appropriate 1" nipple that will screw into this with teflon tape and be sure that it has a smooth area after the threads for the tube to go on where I can clamp it. That's all correct, right?
 
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bsantucci

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Aug 22, 2014
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Solcielo lawrencia said:
Ribbed tubing causes a lot of flow restriction. Smooth tubing far less so since there is no edges to catch the flow.
There's no reason to route the inlet to the outlet of the Serge's design. If the flow is too high, the CO2 simply exits the chamber undissolved. You can do it that way, but it's best to turn the housing upside down to produce countercurrent.

This has me confused. So you're saying I had it right, run the line from pump to the inlet on the filter housing? I've never heard of turning the housing upside down before? I'll have a ball valve on the output to increase pressure if need be.


So the way Gerry does it with pump to outlet really has no benefit?
 

shoggoth43

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The reason for pump to outlet is not readily apparent. Doing it that way will prevent any gas build up in the top of the reactor as it will be automatically purged with the outgoing water. The other flow direction can leave a pocket of gas sitting in the top of the reactor over time.
 

bsantucci

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Aug 22, 2014
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shoggoth43 said:
The reason for pump to outlet is not readily apparent. Doing it that way will prevent any gas build up in the top of the reactor as it will be automatically purged with the outgoing water. The other flow direction can leave a pocket of gas sitting in the top of the reactor over time.

Gotcha. I'll stick with the tried and true regular way. Thanks.
 

bsantucci

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Aug 22, 2014
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So apparently Lifereef thought they had one more overflow left and really did not. So I'm back to picking a new overflow as I want to get this system going.


Do you all think I should go with Eshopps or CPR for a system? I've seen positives and negatives for each.
 
Mar 20, 2013
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bsantucci said:
This has me confused. So you're saying I had it right, run the line from pump to the inlet on the filter housing? I've never heard of turning the housing upside down before? I'll have a ball valve on the output to increase pressure if need be.


So the way Gerry does it with pump to outlet really has no benefit?


The way Gerry does it does not provide any countercurrent because the inner tube is so narrow; the gas will just flow out of the reactor wasted. If the inner tube were as large as the chamber diameter, e.g. you used a large plastic bottle, then it would be fine since the gas will be suspended in the bottle.


You can use a narrow inner tube, with the flow reversed, and turn it upside down because then there will be countercurrent suspending the gas. Since there is already head height that adds pressure, it's not necessary to add the ball valve. It's only a 40 gallon tank so you aren't adding very much gas.
 

bsantucci

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Aug 22, 2014
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Solcielo lawrencia said:
The way Gerry does it does not provide any countercurrent because the inner tube is so narrow; the gas will just flow out of the reactor wasted. If the inner tube were as large as the chamber diameter, e.g. you used a large plastic bottle, then it would be fine since the gas will be suspended in the bottle.


You can use a narrow inner tube, with the flow reversed, and turn it upside down because then there will be countercurrent suspending the gas. Since there is already head height that adds pressure, it's not necessary to add the ball valve. It's only a 40 gallon tank so you aren't adding very much gas.

Got it and makes sense now.


I think I'm going with an Eshopps overflow as I like the no pump needed tube style and I may pair it with their wet dry filters. They have some nice combo deals.
 

toads74

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bsantucci said:
Didn't even think of the check valve. If I use that in the return line, then do I still need to drill a hole in the return pipe?

Most definitely drill the hole, or place the return very close to the surface. The one rule with check valves is they will fail, so don't rely on it. Doesn't take much - a grain of sand or a piece of a leaf stuck in the wrong place will do it. So size the sump and everything as if the check valve isn't there, and let the siphon break be your backup. :)
 

gsjmia

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If you get the flex 1" hose, that will go to a slip fitting (if you get threaded you will need a male adapter-another part and not needed, they slip in and seem to stay put) on the bulkhead from the overflow to the top hole in the top of your sump that is the drain line.


For your other herbie hoses, you can just run them into the sump since a lot of water doesn't go through them, they can skip the bio balls.


The sump you found on ebay looked great for the price, but you need an overflow and a Tom's lifter pump to make sure it doesn't lose the siphon http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewit...FUETHwodJUwA2w


People make these out of plastic bins, laundry baskets, etc.


Then you need to get the water from the sump back to the tank-your pump sits in the (in your picture the right side) sump and pumps it back to the tank-this is the return line. The vinyl/nipple hoses (find the size that fits your situation) would connect to the outflow on your pump, then to the check valve (keeps water from running back into sump and overflowing if there is a power outage) and then to the spray bar, lilly pipe, etc.


As for the check valve, it depends on your return pipe. If its over the top of the tank, then you can drill small hole on the top to break the siphon. If your return pipe is drilled through the thank and below the water line, then you need a check valve or the water will drain until it hits the hole. I have hosed the check valve I listed above for over five years and no failure. You could also do both.
 
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bsantucci

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Aug 22, 2014
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Final decision made and ordered.


Went with Eshopps WD-150CS kit. Comes with a dual 1" overflow which I decided I wanted so I can do a herbie mod, felt like it was better piece of mind. I don't need the 800 gph flow rate, so I'll remove one of the suction tubes and only run 1. This should limit the total flow easily. Then I'll do the herbie mod for silence and add two valves to the drains.


Went with the Jebao DC-3000 versus the newer DCT-4000. The DCT-4000 is just too much flow for this setup. The DC-3000 has lower settings which would be more appropriate here.


Then I went with a Rio 800 to power my Cerges. Decided not to run it in line and will instead feed it closed loop back into the sump right in front of the Jebao. I decided I wanted a larger sump to allow for more water drainage if anything happens.


Any thoughts on my setup/ideas? I think it should work out well.
 
Mar 20, 2013
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I don't like redundancy so using two pumps on a 40 gallon tank is unnecessary and adds to the cost.


What is the minimum flow rate of the Jebao pumps? You should expect significantly lower flow rate due to the head height and no down weight.
 

bsantucci

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Aug 22, 2014
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Solcielo lawrencia said:
I don't like redundancy so using two pumps on a 40 gallon tank is unnecessary and adds to the cost.

What is the minimum flow rate of the Jebao pumps? You should expect significantly lower flow rate due to the head height and no down weight.

Well the rio is only pumping straight back into the sump, not into my main tank.


The DC-3000 is 287gph up to 792gph


The DCT-4000 is 749gph to 1056gph


So looking at that I thought it would be too strong going with the 749gph as the minimum. You think that would be ok? I understand losing flow rate due to head heigh, but it's maybe flowing 3 feet horizontal and 3 feet up. How much loss am I looking at? I can order the larger if you think that would still be needed.


You still think I should do the DCT-4000 to my Cerges, then Cerges to the tank and use the ball valve on the Cerges to reduce flow if needed?