Flow rate for Angels?

dutchy

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I'm sorry, but I think the tank is too small for angelfish. They will not have the chance to fully grow up, probably you'll and up with some sad looking pygmea angels. because of their size and heigth, angels need at least a 40 x 24 inch tank IME.

High flow is not desirable for angelfish. Their body acts like a sail with high flow and it will give them a hard time to swim around.
 

Likuid300

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Thank you!
I certainly don't want sad fish in my house =( That sucks tho
I have, and plan to always have, a high tech tank I think. It's 60w lights for 2 hours, 120w for 4hr, and 60 for 2hr with 70ppm co2 (@ 6 hr mark), dry ferts...I wish I had the funds to see the mmol at the surface but I don't.
I've been reading there needs to be 8-10x tank vol flow rate, so if I got a big enough tank, does that mean I can't have a heavily planted tank (such as a Dutch tank) with Angels?
 
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dutchy

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The 8 - 10x turnover guideline is about filtration and keeping a clean tank. Flow is needed to distribute CO2 and surface movement for O2. The needed turnover rate varies because of tank dimension, amount of plants and hardscape.

My tank has just 4x turnover and is doing well on all aspects. I'd use the filter that you have and reduce flow if needed by using a restricting outlet. Place the outlet an inch under the water surface to create surface movement.
 

Likuid300

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dutchy;105226 said:
The needed turnover rate varies because of tank dimension, amount of plants and hardscape.

This equation definitely intrigues me. I assume there is no defined equation for this of course every situation is diff. how do you judge? So far I've just looked at plant and fish movement...if it looks like they're saying "oh shit", its prolly not good. But this I still don't know.....should my stems be wiggling and 75 degrees tilted.....or barely wiggling and 90 degrees....last question
thank you
 

dutchy

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Slight movement of plant leaves is ok. Bending of stems is too much, although some stems are so week it's almost unavoidable.
Some CO2 deficiencies can show up and cause algae because of flow insufficiency. Also BGA in corners etc.
 

aquabillpers

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dutchy;105174 said:
I'm sorry, but I think the tank is too small for angelfish. They will not have the chance to fully grow up, probably you'll and up with some sad looking pygmea angels. because of their size and heigth, angels need at least a 40 x 24 inch tank IME. . . . [\quote]

I agree that the angelfish will not grow as large in the poster's tank, but so what? I've kept several angelfish in a 29 for long periods. They were healthy and often spawned, and they stayed in proportion to the other (smaller) fish in the tank, even though they grew to only about three inches in height.

I also trim my valisneria every month. Their "natural" leaf length is 20 to 30 inches, far to much for a 20 gallon tank.

Size isn't everything, right?

Bill
 

KingOfTheFeesh

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From what I understand, and what I have been told, stunting is never a good thing. Especially in keeping of large fish or "tankbuster species" (tiger shovelnose catfish, bala sharks, knife fish, etc.), stunting often results in growth defects such as deformities in the spine and skull.
Read this: http://www.seriouslyfish.com/stunted-growth-means-stunted-lives/
It has some pretty important information, especially towards the bottom.
Also, I don't believe that you can relate your vallisneria to the well-being of angelfish, aquabillpers. There are huge biological barriers separating plants from animals, most notably of which is plants inability to feel pain... (At least, as far as we know.) :p
Angelfish can get very territorial. In most cases (that I've heard of, at least), 29 gallons is not ever large enough for two angelfish - and questionably suitable for one.
Note, however, that most of this is not from personal experience but rather from research and from hearsay. It could be wrong - but that would make a whole lot of more experienced aquarists and scientists wrong as well.
 

Tom Barr

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Many like smaller stunted plant sizes, not max growth and sizing, but with fish, suddenly it must be a bad thing.

Different morals for different Phyla.

Vegan "killers" grinding.
 

aquabillpers

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KingOfTheFeesh;113426 said:
From what I understand, and what I have been told, stunting is never a good thing. Especially in keeping of large fish or "tankbuster species" (tiger shovelnose catfish, bala sharks, knife fish, etc.), stunting often results in growth defects such as deformities in the spine and skull.
Read this: http://www.seriouslyfish.com/stunted-growth-means-stunted-lives/
It has some pretty important information, especially towards the bottom.
Also, I don't believe that you can relate your vallisneria to the well-being of angelfish, aquabillpers. There are huge biological barriers separating plants from animals, most notably of which is plants inability to feel pain... (At least, as far as we know.) :p
Angelfish can get very territorial. In most cases (that I've heard of, at least), 29 gallons is not ever large enough for two angelfish - and questionably suitable for one.
Note, however, that most of this is not from personal experience but rather from research and from hearsay. It could be wrong - but that would make a whole lot of more experienced aquarists and scientists wrong as well.

Are two pound koi (Cyprinus carpio) somehow less healthy than their 25 pound brethren?? Is the four year old, 7 inch long brook trout (Salvelinus fontinalis) in a small, infertile mountain stream less robust than the 10 pounder in the Nipigon River in Ontario? I don't think so.

Thanks for reminding me that there are huge biological barriers between plants and animals. I must be spending too much time at Barrreport.com. :)

Bill