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Flourish Excel

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by Tug, Jun 3, 2009.

  1. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    For five months I never used Excel. I worry my Val and RCS might not take it. Turns out RCS are tuff! Little ones like to hide in the filter. :D

    Are there precautions /experiences with this product? Are water changes important when using excel every other day? That make sense but why? Is it a penicillin and you stay on it for as long as it takes at regular doses? What is it after 48 hours pass? My algae is under control so I no longer need it for that (not guarantied to work by seachem anyway), but my plants could use the bones. What about using Excel?
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    RCS, Amano's and CRS's are fine with 5mls/10 Gal dosed daily.

    Vals might take a beating, Mosses do fine though, same for Liverworts.

    Not adding Excel is one way after things settle down if the non CO2 method was what you wanted to begin with. If not,. then keep adding Excel, go CO2 etc.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  3. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Staying the path w/out CO2.

    It would be nice to finish this path (Non CO2/ No Excel) just to see if it keeps working. This Excel looks like a nice transition to CO2 when/if I decide to get there.

    I've got a ten gallon with a fern, bumblebee gobies, low light and guppies. I might try it out on the 10 g., I'll see about excel next time I'm at the LFS. Thanks for your help.
     
    #3 Tug, Jun 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2010
  4. kcharley

    kcharley Junior Poster

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    I've been dosing Excel per bottle directions (5ml/10 gal after 40% water change and 1 ml/10 gal every other day thereafter) and half EI dosing of macro and micro's every other day in my non-CO2 tanks for about 3 months. Have had RCS for 2+ months now and they are multiplying like mad. I've lost about half of the 18 young adults I started with but the spawning is crazy. More than I can count and they bred again yesterday. I'm guessing about 150 shrimplets with some approaching breeding size.

    I don't think I've lost a one to the chemicals but am not sure why I lost some of what I started with. They are tougher than I thought. I shut down one tank siphoning the shrimplets to move them. Washed the java fern on wood in hot water to remove the snails and put those in a different tank. Now I have five shrimp in that tank. How they stayed on the ferns in 120 degree water and survived amazed me.

    No vals in my non CO2 tanks but the regular vals in the CO2 tank melted with the Excel. I think a couple will come back but it is slow right now. I'm guessing the light is restricted by the sword which is overtaking the tank.

    The dwarf vals didn't melt but are doing better once I stopped the Excel in that tank.

    HTH.

    Greg
     
  5. cggorman

    cggorman Prolific Poster

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    If Excel is just "bioavailable carbon", how is it worse for Vals than CO2? I had a massive val melt when I moved. We went from municipal tap water to a private well. Nothing else changed. The tank wasn't even 100% torn down, so the cycle wasn't even broken.

    Curious what caused the melt...and continues to cause on-going val stunting in that tank.

    I didn't, until two weeks ago, add ANYTHING to the water. Not even prime when doing the PWC at the city location. The plants looked great. (low-light, no CO2)
     
  6. phanmc

    phanmc Lifetime Charter Member
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    While Seachem won't share the exact chemical makeup of Excel, we do know that it is similar to diluted gluteraldehyde, which is a toxic disinfectant at the right concentration. Low concentrations are fine for most plants but some are sensitive to it, and if you up the concentration enough it will kill pretty much anything.
     
  7. cggorman

    cggorman Prolific Poster

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    The only significant difference between the city water and my well water is the sodium ions from the softener brine and other lingering chlorides that the ion exchange resins can't remove. I haven't tested to positively identify the chlorides, but given my location, it's a safe bet that they are primarily sodium and magnesium. I know I've also got plenty of manganese.

    It must be one (or a combination) of those three that's tough on vals....
     
  8. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    How many ppm? You may need a desalination unit.

    I'm starting to wonder when someone is going to start tearing apart excel and analyzing it. If I knew how, I would.

    From everything I know, it's exactly like watered down glutaraldehyde in basic empirical observation. People in healthcare I've talked to describe it exactly the same way. And damn does it cause rashes on the skin; I found out the hard way a couple weeks ago after I ended up with a couple drops on my arm.

    To be honest, I don't beleive, "trade secrets" should be allowed. Most of the time it starts to look like flat out lies, and usually reflects the values of the company.

    -Philosophos
     
  9. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    "Trade Secrets" also often seems to be a way to hide from liability. You can't be sued for using a really nasty chemical if people don't know it's in there. It's just a "You didn't follow instructions" response and they're off the hook until someone can prove they're doing something so blatently stupid it's not even funny. However, that might explain some of the itchy/burning skin on the arm from the other day since moving over to Flourish. My Ram also went downhill and died when I switched. For now I'm going to chalk that up to coincidence but I may need to rethink that at some point...

    Same thing, if you have food allergies it's hard to know if you can eat something with "natural flavors" listed as an ingredient. Sketchy...

    -
    S
     
  10. Canadian007

    Canadian007 Junior Poster

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    I've been using excel for about a week in a 24g nanocube. It cleared out all of my green beard algae. Which really helped in solving a growing snail problem. My Amino Shrimp are doing fine so far, along with all of my fish. I have been feeding more, since there is less algae for the fish/shrimp to pick at.

    I guess more time will tell if it has side effects. So far it has been a great product to use. I bought it, tried it, and because I liked it so much I returned to the lfs to pick up some more of the flourish line to do more complete fertilizing.
     
  11. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Tye1.a

    Has anyone kept their eye out for changes in the pH. Is Excel mildly alkaline? With these proprietary formulas could it also contain K without stating it in any literature?

    It has been so long since I've checked pH and while testing dKH I forget about its importance. Maybe there are (I'm betting Tom knows) changes by way of bicarbonate. With increased CO2 my guess is plants will use any increases to potassium and Molybdenum. I would like to increase K & -MO anyway. What about adding Potassium silicate and Molybdenum to my secret formula?
     
  12. cggorman

    cggorman Prolific Poster

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    I don't have a way to test for specific chlorides, but if memory serves, my TDS meter averages about 1100 ppm (post softener). If I leave a puddle of soft water on the counter to evaporate, it leaves a thin powdery residue that is salty to taste and dissolves completely and easily in water.

    I would like to augment my current water treatment equipment to include some antibacterial (chlorine drip or UV) and chloride removal. Would also like to add a larger RO pressure vessel, but those will have to wait for some money in the budget.

    I can't use the hard water in the tanks because it has toxic levels of iron (~5ppm using a home test kit). I've tried it. Fish die within hours. They don't mind the softened water at all.

    But that's putting us pretty far off topic. Rather than risk using Excel on my low-tech tank, I'm setting up a yeast farm. Just need to finish off this 2 liter of Sam's Cola. :D
     
  13. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    You might as well go an RO unit and a by pass for that softer unit also.

    Salt is not good for plants, nor will the RO like it the salt either(It'll clog it much faster). Replace the pre filters and the carbon unit on the RO unit every 2 months or so.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  14. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    For a smaller tank, it's a good idea/practical and useful.

    For a 200 Gal tank?
    No........

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  15. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Tug, I'm going to test that one today/tomorrow. I've had alkalinity increases in my tank, despite using RO water. I've tested both food and substrate; neither are contributing. I'll go at it with a fresh API KH test kit (calibrated) and see what happens after excel sits for 24 hours.

    -Philosophos
     
  16. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    The test is done- 1.5ml in 3.5ml DI. I didn't feel like messing around with light doses :D

    No KH rise. There's nothing hiding in excel that adds to KH in and of its self.

    -Philosophos
     
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