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Fish nervious and not eating well

Discussion in 'Fish for Planted Tanks' started by rcalzadilla, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    My fish were very active and eating very well, since about 2 days ago
    they are hiding and not eating well and some, not at all.
    These are angelfish, neon corys, 11 otos, 12 cardinal tetras.
    Six (6) cardinal tetras have died in the las 3 days and think they are the ones with very drawn(empty) stomachs.
    125 gal/100 gal net started 9/17, planted tank 10/11.

    The significant change that I notice is PH now 6.4 from 6.6.
    Have been dosing the same for 6 weeks except for a small increase in Plantex
    and new dosing of Epson salt , 3.0g, 2x week.
    Temp is about 80-82 F and steady.
    There is green algae. Today I changed 50% water and they came alive for a while in the fresh water but reverted to the above behavior.

    Any ideas?

    tks
     
    #1 rcalzadilla, Nov 8, 2007
  2. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    Did you use Prime or an equivalent dechlorinator? It almost sounds like you have something like chlorine or ammonia in the water. Do you dose CO2, and how do you measure how much you have in the water?
     
    #2 VaughnH, Nov 8, 2007
  3. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Yes I used dechlorinator (fish's behavior improved after water change).
    Ammonia is -0-
    CO2 - 35PPM (KH 53.7 , PH 6.4)

    I had PH at 6.6 for a while but increased CO2 (lowered PH) to fight algae.
    I am going to increase PH to 6.6 as this seems to be the problem.

    Any other ideas?

    tks
     
    #3 rcalzadilla, Nov 9, 2007
  4. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Is this a typo? Should it read 5.37 or is this 53 ppm? It's very easy to gas the fish if you measure CO2 incorrectly. Are you calculating the CO2 based on the tank water parameters or are you using a drop checker with 4dkh water? If you are using the tank water you can be way off in either direction.

    Cheers,
     
    #4 ceg4048, Nov 9, 2007
  5. Carissa

    Carissa Guru Class Expert

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    Have you tested nitrite? From what I've heard nitrite poisoning hits cardinals particularly hard. It will cause the fish to suffocate because it affects how they are able to process oxygen. How big is the tank? How long has it been set up? Anything you did right before this started happening?
     
    #5 Carissa, Nov 9, 2007
  6. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    I am measuring my CO2 with my aquarium water, my KH and PH readings.
    I don't know what a drop check is. Could you point me where to find out about it and which one you use, etc?
    My PH has been 6.4 (35ppm C02 per table) brought it down today to 6.6 since fish were ok at that PH level ( so now CO2 should be at 23ppm)
    My KH ..53.7ppm (3 degrees K)
    My Nitrate today 20ppm (I just dosed fertilizers including KNO3)
    My fish were happy Oct. 27 for sure, changed 50% water and added, for the first time: 1/4 tsp MGSO4(EPSON SALT) and
    30ml of Excel. Obviously I overdosed. Have stopped using excel until I understand it.
    At this point some fish died off.

    Today I have installed a 25 Watt UV sterilizer to help with diatoms and green algae. BBA has started to appear now.

    Your opinions would be appreciated
     
    #6 rcalzadilla, Nov 9, 2007
  7. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    I don't think the problem is CO2. When we measure CO2 by measuring the tank KH and pH that almost always gives too high a number, not too low. Here is an article on drop checkers:http://www.barrreport.com/articles/2661-drop-checkers-co2-indicators-why-how.html. Here are some sources for them: Boyu Drop Checker Type 1 [5654] - £12.99 : Aqua Essentials,
    Chame Co2 Drop Checker - Live Aquarium plant fish tank - (eBay item 250183686041 end time Nov-10-07 18:37:59 PST),
    http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/sale-trade/38553-fs-co2-drop-checkers.html
     
    #7 VaughnH, Nov 9, 2007
  8. Professor Myers

    Professor Myers Guru Class Expert

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    I'd say Carissa was on the mark. I'd test for nitrite, and if that came back negative I'd probably test it again ! Nervous behavior and going off there feed, the very 1st. place to start is nitrite. Annoxia would produce lethargic behavior so Co2 is unlikely. By now the nitrite may have cycled through. Did you make any recent changes to the system or any large additions in livestock or feed ? Did you do any extensive maintenance recently ? During nitrite surges the water may appear to be unusually clear (Visually clean) while the livestock appears to be distressed due to the hemoglobin being bound with nitrite. Fishes vital chatoyance may appear to be dark, dull or grey to black. Neons/cardinals red shade will wash out white. Discus will shadow black. Corys will spaz out severely.

    Excess copper will have similar indicators, but that's unlikely unless you have a known source in your makeup water. HTH. Prof M

     
    #8 Professor Myers, Nov 17, 2007
  9. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    It is a new tank.........

    More water changes, good CO2/dosing, maybe add some Zeolite, carbon etc, purigen etc

    These fish really are not acclimated nor is the tank.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #9 Tom Barr, Nov 17, 2007
  10. FacePlanted

    FacePlanted Guru Class Expert

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    Could the fish problems be because of the Excel? Didn't you say that is when you began to see problems? I have read that overdoses of Excel can sometimes affect some of the more sensitive fish/inverts.

    But...you said you dosed 30ml. of excel in a 125gal. tank....I have used doses of half that - 12-15ml. - in my 29gal. tank with no effect on my shrimp.....so 30ml in a 125 gal. tank might not really be that much.

    Just something to consider as well.

    -Mike B-
     
    #10 FacePlanted, Nov 19, 2007
  11. rcalzadilla

    rcalzadilla Prolific Poster

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    Excel Seachem response.

    This is Seachem's response to my e-mail on the adverse effects to my fish using Excel:

    Hello,
    Flourish Excel is a reducing agent and has the capability
    to remove some oxygen from the water. If you already have
    a low oxygen content in the tank and dose Excel, this
    could potentially have an impact on very sensitive fish.
    However, this is a rare situation. We have these types of
    fish in our tanks here and we dose Flourish Excel on a
    daily basis with no problem. If you are using another
    reducing agent along with the Flourish Excel, it is
    possible that the fish are becoming stressed due to lack
    of oxygen. Most water conditioners are reducing agents.
    You may just need to add the Excel on days when you do not
    add any other supplements and add less than the
    recommended dose. As I said, this is not a typical
    reaction with Flourish Excel. It is most likely not the
    Flourish Excel alone, but a combination of factors.
    Tech Support
    10201
    Tech Support
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Seachem Laboratories, Inc.
    1000 Seachem Drive, Madison, GA 30650
    888-SEACHEM Fax 706-343-6070

    What other reducing agents are there in our daly fertilizing?
     
    #11 rcalzadilla, Dec 4, 2007
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