Fish illness, co-morbid infections, my fish need your help!

[Biollante]

This Time The Light at the End of the Tunnel Doesn't Appear to be a Train

Hi Shawn,

Definitely optimism!

Is this with or without the wood in the aquarium?

Either way the test show that the PP treatment should be effective in no more than two tries, given the color did not change at all it may even be a single treatment.

Go ahead with a [SUP]2mg PP[/SUP]∕[SUB]l[/SUB] treatment that would be 36-ml 1% PP solution.

I am hopeful the PP treatment will be effective against the parasites; it may not be but at least the condition will not be conducive to further outbreaks.

Please refresh my memory as to the medications you have on hand,

Biollante

 

[ShadowMac]

Hi Bio, I did proceed with one PP treatment which did not make it the full 4 hours. It maybe lasted 2 hours or so. I changed the water afterwards. The wood was still in the aquarium for those 8 days. The color in the test tube is still the same.

I have fenbendazole and API General Cure for parasites.

 

[Biollante]

Maybe It Is A Train After All--- My Bad

Hi Shawn,

I am really sorry Shawn, my miscalculation that should have been a 250-ml sample, not 10-ml that way each drop would be [SUP]2mg pp[/SUP]∕[SUB]l[/SUB].

Then after PP, API General Cure follows it.

Under any circumstance the rot has to go.:chargrined:

I mean obviously you can dose the API General Cure without successfully eliminating the high DOC, but my experience is at best you will suppress it for awhile.

Biollante

 

[ShadowMac]

Should I wait for a period of time before doing the 250 ml sample test? I changed water yesterday.

 

[Biollante]

Knowing Beats Not Knowing Even If It Is Not What We Want To Know

Hi Shawn,

Go ahead with the test now, let’s see what happens.

Biollante

 

[ShadowMac]

Hi Bio,

I performed the 250 ml test today, around 48 hours after the last water change. The PP treatment required 2 drops to remain in the pink for 4 hours. I dosed the first over my lunch break and it was a hazy orange yellowish after work around 5 pm. Second drop went in shortly after that and remained a light pink through 10 pm.

I am hoping this is good...

 

[Biollante]

Great!

Hi,

Yes, that is excellent!:gw

Repeat the test tomorrow and see if it stays in that under 4-ppm state.

If it is then perhaps another, water change and do the treatment the following day, if you have the time. Based on the test it should require two applications.

Biollante

 

[ShadowMac]

just to be sure...double sure...

I test again tomorrow, then if still within 4 ppm stage treat the tank with the 36 ml PP which should require two rounds. If it remains at the two treatment level and stays pink for the 4 hours I will then dose the API general cure.

 

[ShadowMac]

A dangerous activity...I know.

So, I've been thinking...

For a while I was concerned some of the Rams hadn't been getting enough to eat, so I was feeding frozen live food nearly every other day. I also did not remove the uneaten food after a period of time considering the rams are slow eaters and would tend to graze at the bits of food. I assumed shrimp and snails would do a good job of cleaning up whatever was left.

Could this have been a culprit in the elevated DOC's?

I know..I want it to be anything but the wood.

 

[Biollante]

Thinking Is The Quickest Route to Trouble I Know, So Stop It & Go Watch TV Right Now

Hi Shawn,

Yes, overfeeding, especially live foods are a common source of problems, including parasites.:gw

Another problem with overfeeding live foods is sometimes they go on living and multiplying then die off.

I hope somewhere along the way I mentioned good general cleaning.

Certainly going through all the steps before anything drastic is important.

Yesterday I did a routine maintenance dose on a number of tanks I have been tracking using PP treatments in lieu of water changes.

A 6-year old, much abused, 55-gallon DSB (no external filtration), 160-watt overgrown tank that has been requiring about [SUP]0.75mg PP[/SUP]∕[SUB]l[/SUB] every six weeks or so, suddenly consumed [SUP]6mg PP[/SUP]∕[SUB]l[/SUB].

The first treatment cleared in minutes and left it obvious I needed to remove a bunch of leaves.

Went through this another time, finally found a Mickey Mouse Platy, Xiphophorus maculatus that had decided to wriggle in some rocks and conveniently die. I suspect the tank would have consumed him pretty quickly, but it was interesting that I saw the evidence of high DOC among the plants.:surprise:

I finished with a [SUP]2mg PP[/SUP]∕[SUB]l[/SUB] treatment even though I keep rotifer populations in there.

Biollante

 

[ShadowMac]

I can't win...

I was able to complete the PP treatments to achieve the 4 hr mark, I examined the wood and could not find rotting spots. The wood was firm as I poked and prodded it with my tweezers and scissors. I could not visually see any worm like creatures underneath.

The condition has been worsening for the Rams. They are all over all of them, despite the PP treatments and 3 rounds of API General Cure (two this past week)

Interestingly it doesn't seem to have gotten worse for the cardinal tetras, although they still have parasites. The rams have them coiled within the gills, one has a couple under the skin behind its eye. Other locations include fins and randomly over the body. I feel awful for the poor critters, but do not know what to do

I'm finally feeling that drastic measures may be necessary...Quarantine, treat (with what?), and zap the tank with PP?

 

[Biollante]

I Am Not Sure

Hi Shawn,

It may well be the infected fish cannot be saved. The good news is that the parasite probably cannot complete its life cycle.

I would definitely quarantine the infected fish. I’ll write a bit more on another round of treatments, but you are probably going to have to make a decision as to how viable the fish are.

Was that PP treatment with the wood in the tank? If so then it is not the wood. If the wood was out of the tank, doing a PP treatment in a bucket or other container will demonstrate one way or the other.

Biollante

 

[ShadowMac]

Thanks Bio,

Looks like my half-ass methods are not paying off. I'm okay with pulling the wood out and going full quarantine this weekend. I've had a house guest for a for the last couple weeks who has so rudely invaded my work space. My wife likes to call it the guest room. ppsssh...

I know it will be hard for you to NOT say "I told you so..." so I will forgive you if you do. The plan this weekend is to remove all living critters from the tank. I will quarantine any infected fish in one tank. If there are some who show no signs of illness, my ottos and the Daisy's rice fish, can I add them to another tank that has fish or should they be quarantined with the others? These two species have been surprisingly resilient to the infestation.

I await your guidance on how to treat the quarantined infected fish and the tank that will only have the "undesirables"

 

[Biollante]

I Love It When People Save Me The Trouble…

Hi Shawn,

Until you know, the source of the organic material there really won’t be a fix.

I need to check something (actually with someone) before I give any advice on how to proceed.

My inclination is toward recommending a 10-ppm PP bath for your fish,
though if they are in a seriously weakened condition that could be fatal.
​

---

Believe me Shawn, woman is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man.[SUP]1 [/SUP]:02.47-tranquillity:

Biollante
[SUP]1[/SUP]Adjusted quote lifted from O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000)

 

[Biollante]

No Good News I Fear...

Hi Shawn,

I haven’t forgotten about you, I have been seeking some other opinions, unfortunately I need to find a smarter set of low friends in high places…

Any updates?

Biollante

 

[ShadowMac]

Hi Bio,

I have quarantined the rams in a 10 gallon and treated with a couple seachem meds. Paraguard and Aquazole (metrinidazole). I have been trying to get them to eat some of the aquazole by mixing it with some frozen brine and Seachem Focus to create a paste. They didn't go for it, but it was the first day in quarantine so they may not have felt brave enough to venture out and eat. I lost one, he was the weakest, lowest on the pecking order and malnourished. It wasn't unexpected. The others seem to be doing fine. They will remain in quarantine until they no longer are symptomatic ie no visual signs of an infestation.

Since the cardinals seem to have actually improved, no longer showing signs of new parasites, and they are so tough to catch without ripping up the tank I have decided to leave them there and treat the main tank with the Paraguard. A couple cardinals do have lateral line discoloration, the blue line "eroded" away in some places. Behaviorally they are doing really well, eating and active. I actually found a baby daisy rice fish in there last week. I thought all the eggs were getting eaten. I haven't seen the little guy since though.

It was unreal how bad it was getting for the rams. They had worms crawling on and out of them everywhere.

I was a fish keeper for years and didn't run into these things until I started doing the planted tanks. I saw ich and some other common easily diagnosed things, but never the crazy things I've seen with planted tanks.

 

[Biollante]

Most Anything That Happens Quickly Is Probably Bad--My Dear Ol' Dad

Hi Shawn,

Based on my experience and the feedback I have been able to get you are dealing with something you are not going to cure. The good news is the life cycle is broken and there is not much more going to happen. PP paste is about it for treating the wounds and perhaps killing the nasty’s.

There are aspects of planted tanks that are a little closer to high-density aquaculture than “normal” live fish keeping.

I used to say there is no such thing as too much filtration (biological anyway), I still believe that to be true in non-planted tanks and particularly in high-density aquaculture.

In the planted tank, there is competition for the same resources among various desirable and undesirable plants, fungus, bacteria primitive life forms. Things that create hospitable environments for plants and our desirable critters can easily go astray and provide a great environment for all kinds of other creatures, benign and malignant.

I suspect that is what happened here, the water column went from a relatively uninteresting solution to an organic stew, throw in stressed fish, whether stressed by illness, shipping or the organic stew itself it allowed a malignant life form to get a foothold, however introduced.

This has been an example of when things go bad, they go bad quickly.

Biollante

 

[Mehmet Can Günaydın]

Hello;
I want to share worm/nematode problems and how i cured(only fishes i am stll trying to treat the tank from theese creators.)

I have some serious problems on my 340lt planted freshwater tank.
First,i saw some circular soft white things on my ram's skin.When i took it off i noticed that it is soft and like a worm but no movement.(picture 1)

Then i noticed theese circular worm type of things on my ram's gilss(picture 2)

I used several types of treatments,when i used a medicine for parasite(human medicine,active ingredient is levimasole) i found worms hanging on the anus(paralised/dead) of my fishes.I took it off with tweezers.(picture 3,4)

I continued levimazol treatment as mixing medicine with fish food.Now my fishes looks fine(there are many looses before treatment)

Now i can barely see worms under the soil (

)

I think theese worms/nematodes can not hang on my fishes now because of the food i use with levimazol but they are still in the tank.But may be 2 different types of worms inside my tank.Because the worms inside the soil is white and the worms which inside the fsh is red.

On the other hand i am not sure the worms which inside the soil may effect to my plant's roots?

I am still trying to treat the tank.
Thanks for your support