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Fertilizing , co2 or some other problem??

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by ibanezfrelon, May 29, 2010.

  1. ibanezfrelon

    ibanezfrelon Guru Class Expert

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    Hallo!

    I'm not satisfied with the growth of some of my plants.
    But first some tech. info..

    Filtration: 2xinternal filter (2x600lit-h)
    Flow pumps: Atman 2x500lit-h , 1x350lit-h
    Overall flow: aprox 2500lit-h
    CO2: 20kg pressurised tank , fabco nv
    CO2 level: DC is yellow , CO2 goes through an airstone and into the three Atman flow pumps and spreads across the aquarium , co2 is set as high as it goes , if i turn it up higher my fish start to pass away.
    Light: 2x45w t5 , 9 hrs-day

    Dosing:
    NO3- 45ppm
    PO4- 12ppm
    K - 60ppm
    Fe from csm+b - 2.0ppm

    70% weekly WC

    My ludwigia ovalis is s in a bad shape, older leaves showing K deficit at 60ppm K dosed???
    Am i overdosing something or what?
    A while ago i've had a beautiful Ludwigia bush and after trimming it just stopped growing like before..
    In the meantime i planted some microsorums, rotalas and bacopas, is it possible that they are K consumers and they take all the K from my ludwigia?
    That maybe sounds stupid but i dont know what to do anymore..

    On the other side i have Alternanthera reineckii that looks weak, lower leaves are wrinkling and dying, not very bad but the plant is not in top shape.
    I have let the valisneria over it so it has some shade and also i turned one of the pumps towards that plant so it would get more co2 bubbles.

    O yes, i forgot, my polysperma also showed some holes in the old leaves.

    Anyone has some suggestions?

    Please excuse me for my english.

    ....on one pitcure you can see my ludwigia bush as it was a month or two month ago...
     
    #1 ibanezfrelon, May 29, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2010
  2. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Is this a 45 gallon tank?
    Are you determining your ppm by testing?
    You should have plenty nutrients if your using EI doses.

    Try to further reduce the lighting and improve the way you are dispersing CO2.
    Wet's stuff calculator http://wet.biggiantnerds.com/ei/con_v_time.pl should give you a better understanding of the % uptake. Based on what your adding and what your reading from testing, a lower % uptake would suggest poor CO2 distribution. Low levels of CO2 and too much light and the plant begins to destroy it's own structures that provide energy, i.e. leaf decay.
     
  3. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    Looks like a Juwel Rio180. 2x45 Watt T5 is ok for a Rio180 and not too much IMO. But the the tank is quite deep. Do you have reflectors on your lamps? If not I would do so. Since you are having problems with specially the lower regions and plants that stop growing after trimming, too low light could be a cause (sorry Tug) ;) The Juwel Rio has a black canopy, which absorbs a lot of light.

    Now every plant stops growing after trimming for some period of time, but after something like 5 to 10 days it should be growing again.

    Everything else looks very much ok to me.

    regards,
    dutchy
     
    #3 dutchy, May 29, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2010
  4. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Improve CO2, Oxygen levels and flow, always.

    It isn't the first time I got it wrong without having all the facts. Well, if it's not the light and it's not the fertilizer, then CO2 and O2 levels must be low. Reducing the amount of light will reduce the demand for CO2 - which makes me think it's still worth the try. The plants will grow slower, but they should show improvement.

    What is the KH and would you know the Ca and Mg levels?
     
    #4 Tug, May 29, 2010
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  5. ibanezfrelon

    ibanezfrelon Guru Class Expert

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    Thanx guys for replying..
    Sorry, i forgott to write down tank capacity... ...It's a Rio 180, so 180 liters or 45 gal..
    I'm gonna discard the light as a problem because ludwigia was doing fine with two extra t8 30w tubes and then again after trimming it wouldn't grow even with that strong light.
    I discarded the t8 last week at mr Barr's recomendation.
    Don't have reflectors but i have alluminum foil sticked to canopy , the ludwigia is planted right underneath the two t5's so it's getting enough light, even the lower part of the plants.

    I'm not testing for no3 or po4 , the ppm's i wrote is what i put in the aquarium weekly.

    What confuses me is that spotts in the older leaves that looks like K deff.. ..at 60ppm added? ..unlikely.
    CO2? ...if i turn it up just a little bit, my fish start gasping for breath (and then my wife screams at me)
    Flow? ..most of the plants are moving all the time and co2 bubbles seam to be everywhere , two quieter spotts where i cannot point the pumps at because the flow starts ripping out my plants.
    ...maybe i should try some other pumps with less pointed flow, something softer..

    Water is pretty hard , kh=15 , Ca- 133 , that much i remember from my water suplier report a few month ago, dont remember Mg though.
     
  6. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    The water movement along the surface looks like it could use a little more agitation. You might also have a film on the surface (sometimes caused from iron loving bacteria). All of those issues would reduce the levels of O2 and add to the problems your having, IME. You are dosing a lot more CSM+B and K+ then you should need.

    Improve your DO levels by increasing the surface ripple, try adding just 0.7 ppm of Fe to help reduce the biofilm on the surface.

    If you are dosing K2SO4 you might try less and keep the total K closer to 35-45ppm.

    And, keep trying to improve the way you add CO2, correcting any flow issues until you see improvements.
     
  7. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    A good way to find out if low CO2 levels are the problem is to add extra water changes. For two or three weeks every three days do a water change. If you see an improvement in the plants, more then likely it is a CO2 problem.
     
  8. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    Seems like this time I didn't have all the facts straight about the light ;) Of course I didn't know you had the same with more light and already have alufoil reflectors.

    I guessed your were putting 20 ppm in there per week. That's on the lean side. I would dose more, something like 30 ppm per week. Just to be sure. 20 ppm is only enough for 4 days in my tank, and I don't have more light than you.
     
  9. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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  10. ibanezfrelon

    ibanezfrelon Guru Class Expert

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    O2.... i never thought of that..
    I do have that film on the surface that's only broken on the exit of my Eheim filter that agitates the surface a bit.
    I will lift the filter up so it makes some more agitation.
    Was already considering 2x week water change because of the large dosing i do , to reset twice, ok, i'll try that too.
    I will lower Fe to 1ppm and k2so4 so that K is 45ppm.

    Your advices make a lot of sence to me, thank you!

    I will try this and see how it goes..

    Pozdrav!
     
  11. ibanezfrelon

    ibanezfrelon Guru Class Expert

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    Are you talking about NO3 or PO4??? ...because i never mentioned 20ppm but NO3-45ppm , PO4-12ppm , K-60ppm and Fe-2,0 ppm
     
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