Fertilizing a newly started high light tank.. Yes or No?

[ibanezfrelon]

There's a discution i'm having on a local forum about this subject, and it's starting to be more of an argument
The guy is starting a high light tank (probably cf light) , adding co2 , comercial supstrate (no NPK inside) and he's asking should he fertilize the water from the beginning or not.
I wrote that he should because his plants would starve to death under high light and no ferts, but most of the other suggestions were not to fertilize until the tank is cycled...
There's a lot of fear of fertilizing on that forum and it's pretty hard to change when it's probably been like that for a longer time and people that are considered authority there are spreading that fear.

 

[Oreo]

He'll figure it out when all his plants turn brown on the first day.

 

[dbazuin]

dutchie and I have the same problem on or dutch forum.
There is always someone who starts telling the old tales

 

[Tug]

It is flat! I tell you, the world is flat and at the center of the universe!

Speaking as one who did not have any fertilizer to start with, I wish I had known better. At least this individual is smart enough to add CO2 right away. I would suggest they have fertilizer on hand and know how to use it, what ever they decide. Stay on top of what happens. One way or another it will be brought to light. What that supposed authority fears the most is not the need to cycle the tank first, but the shift in their paradigm.

:gw The proof of the pudding is the eating. Those who say it is better to go with the fertilizer are speaking from experience. What of those who say not? On what do they base there argument? Enriched soils and low lighting?

 

[Tom Barr]

Plants start off with some reserves, and there's might be some nutrients in the tap, etc...........but the real more precise question: does adding ferts at the start induce algae?
This answer is no.

The key is good plant density from day one, not a few plants and wait till it "fills in".
If you do not want to dose for a week, no issue, or even 1-2 months with ADA AS/DIY soils etc...........
After, it starts becoming more critical and you can notice a difference in daytime O2 and growth rates.

I think doing say 1/2 dosing at the start 1-2 weeks is fine, but this is more due to waste, plants will get chugging along and take up a lot more as they fill in.
3x more plant biomass is a lot more than when you start off!

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[Gerryd]

Hi,

If the substrate is completely devoid of any nutrients the plants will eventually suffer from what is LACKING the most. Law of minimum and all that 'sciency' stuff you know...If lacking multiples, I wouldn't even hazard a guess, but poor growth would be my first choice...

Even if you provide abundant c02 to the plants, at some point the plant will need some N,P,K for some internal process, not find any and have issues somewhere else in the chain..where will they source these from in this case?

If using ADA or a DIY substrate with nutrients, than water column fertilization is a nice safety net, but not as vital.

Maybe you can ask what the reasoning behing holding off on water column dosing will accomplish?

Why give the plants one nutrient (a main one true) but limit others? Makes no sense to me....

most of the other suggestions were not to fertilize until the tank is cycled...

And the thought here is what exactly????? Perhaps you can ask them to explain the science or reasoning behind that suggestion...

I guess you can figure out how I would vote on the poll

Plants need to get some NPK from somewhere.....

 

[csmith]

I'd venture to guess the reasoning behind it is uptake of NH4 in lieu of macros. That's really the only thing that would make any sense.
Either that, or you don't dose your tank until it cycles to ensure your plants know who the boss is and show them who runs barter town.

 

[ibanezfrelon]

Thanx guys, Tom for replying!
I think the main issue on my local forum is a BIG fear of algae and thinking that somehow ferts are the cause.
It pisses me off that no one realy speaks from experience and are very hard to admit they're wrong..
Few times i wanted to go away from that forum but i feel sorry for the newbies coming there asking for advices and getting bad anwsers.

 

[Tom Barr]

Thanx guys, Tom for replying!
I think the main issue on my local forum is a BIG fear of algae and thinking that somehow ferts are the cause.
It pisses me off that no one realy speaks from experience and are very hard to admit they're wrong..
Few times i wanted to go away from that forum but i feel sorry for the newbies coming there asking for advices and getting bad anwsers.
If someone speaks croatian here's a link http://akvarijske-ribe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12289&start=15

Well, this is common. People are this way on many forums.
Just keep helping folks.

Eventually over time, you start to wear the critics/myths down.
A good myth is hard to kill.

I've posted a few scapes here:
http://www.mojbiljniakvarijum.org/forum/index.php

So you can use that and the post as references to make your case.
I can post there, but I cannot speak Serbo-Croatian or what ever the hell they call the different languages that were fairly uniform back when I lived in Dubrovnik.

Everyone thought I was a German tourist, which given my look/racial appearances is understandable..........but few Americans where ever seen there. Not till we started bombing the place in the 1990's, sorry about that.
Mostar is not the same, sitting by the river, eating pastries......drinking tea near the bridge......... nor Sarajevo (I must have walked the entire city!), and even south, in Kotor and the mountains about there. Good memories, tasty food, great people, beautiful area.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[lakosta88]

can I just ask. is it a problem not adding npk in first 5-7 days if u have a rich soil? that's what i said on akvarijske-ribe. i am a newbi i'm in this hobi just for about 6-7 months so...
and can adding npk (newbi dosing) in low planted tank with high light and co2 resultate with algae problem? i think the real problem is that 80% of people on that forum are newbi's and playing whit all this for them (and me) is like playin with C4.
btw i'm from sarajevo Tom
ps. sry if there are some mistakes in my english

 

[ibanezfrelon]

can I just ask. is it a problem not adding npk in first 5-7 days if u have a rich soil? that's what i said on akvarijske-ribe. i am a newbi i'm in this hobi just for about 6-7 months so...
and can adding npk (newbi dosing) in low planted tank with high light and co2 resultate with algae problem? i think the real problem is that 80% of people on that forum are newbi's and playing whit all this for them (and me) is like playin with C4.
btw i'm from sarajevo Tom
ps. sry if there are some mistakes in my english

I think Tom already answered that..

If you do not want to dose for a week, no issue, or even 1-2 months with ADA AS/DIY soils etc....

Regards,
Tom Barr