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Fertilizers for a non-C02 tank

Discussion in 'Non-CO2 Methods' started by Francesco, Feb 20, 2012.

  1. Francesco

    Francesco Junior Poster

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    Hi everyone,
    Here in Italy we don't have dry fertilizers, so I'm asking you if I can use this set of Dennerle fertilizers ( http://www.zooplus.it/shop/pesci/cura_piante_acquario/fertilizzanti_acquario/fertilizzanti_dennerle/118785 ) which I already have.
    The composition of the fertilizers are:
    E15: 14.04% K20; 3.57% Fe; 1.08% Mn
    V30: 1% K20; 0.3018% MgO; 0.021% Boron; 0.006% Cu, 0.306% Fe, 0.122% Mn, 0.012 Mo, 0.006% Zn, 0.002% Co, 0.002% Nichel, 0.003% Li, 0.002% Al, 0.0015% Va
    for S7 I didn't found anything.
    Thank you! :)

    Also, here's a picture of my tank right now:
    20l1o9x.jpg
    Is it enough planted to use this method? will it be alright to add some cryptocoryne and a vallisneria?
    Thank you!
    Francesco

    edit: some information about my tank you might find useful: it's a 10 gallon, 1,4 wpg, non c02 tank, with anubias, microsorium, two echinodorus and hygrophila polysperma. I wanted to add a carpeting plant but I don't know what could be good. If you want some other information just ask!
     
    #1 Francesco, Feb 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2012
  2. Htomassini

    Htomassini Guest

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  3. Francesco

    Francesco Junior Poster

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  4. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    A little extra food now and then...

    Hi,

    Welcome!
    :glee:

    With the substrate, the Dennerle should be okay, low light, no CO[SUB]2[/SUB], perhaps over feed the fish now and then for a little extra Nitrate.
    :)

    Biollante
     
  5. Francesco

    Francesco Junior Poster

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    ok thanks! How have I to dose it? on the box there is written to use 3 ml of V30 and 1 tablet of E15. I'm using half the dose they say. What do you suggest me?
     
  6. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
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    I think you could get the same or better results by using plain topsoil under a layer of 2mm - 3 mm gravel, and you wouldn't have to dose "V30" or "E15", whatever they are, either.

    I suggest that you add more plants and about 10 inches of small fish, and, as Biolante suggested, feed them well.

    Good luck!

    Bill
     
  7. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    I Think These Are Great Tanks!

    Hi,

    I am with Bill, top soil, the cheap stuff, or from your garden (assuming no pesticide use) then add more plants, more fish!
    :glee:

    I think adding crypts will be fine they are good low light root feeders that will take over. Crypts will appreciate soil.
    :)

    The Vallisneria tend to like brighter light, do well in harder water and do not need CO[SUB]2[/SUB]. So the Vals are a closer call.

    If you do not want to add top soil
    :nonchalance:, I would continue with what you are doing. Though I would still add plants and fish!:glee:

    Ask yourself, how do the plants look?

    Let the plants dictate, with low light and no added CO[SUB]2[/SUB] you really should not need much.
    :encouragement:

    Biollante
     
  8. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Missed That

    Hi,

    Sorry I missed the substrate thing;:eek: it appears to be quite rich, though a little mud never hurt.:rolleyes:

    Biollante
     
  9. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    The sediment is like ADA.
    The split aquascape is a nice change for non CO2 designs, and has some interesting potential

    A few things could be done here:

    dwarf harigrass could be used for that region, or dwarf Clover, or some other hardy foreground plant, Crypt parva perhaps and you could use seAchem Excel, I think the brand in the EU is "Easy Carbo".

    You could add easy carbo for 3 months or so..........dose a small amount as suggested in the non CO2 articles, basically EI but 10-20X less.
    After the plants grow in and doing well, you stop adding the Easy carbo and add less of the fertilizer(about 1/2 as much again, so 20-40X less than EI).
    Once you stop adding the Easy carbo refrain from water changes, add enough for evaporation only.

    If anything is NOT easy to understand, let me know.
     
  10. Francesco

    Francesco Junior Poster

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    First of all, thank you for considering my tank nice :)
    Well, I'm afraid the substrate I added is not enough: the instruction say to add 5 liters every 100 liters, and I added about 1 liter (I think :D) in my 40 liters. However I added peat moss.
    Ragarding the carpeting plant, I've just bought online some crypto parva, thanks!
    What does EI mean? I'm sorry I'm not used to english advanced online forum :D
    So I have to add the fertilizers following the dose on the instructions when using excel (which I didn't understand how to dose) and when I stop I start again dosing half? The Dennerle instructions say to add the main fertilizers only every two weeks... will it be enogh?
    Also, while using excel (yes, even in italy it's called "excel") I have to perform regural water changes of about 30% every week?
    Thanks again and sorry for all the questions.
    Edit: I have also seachem phosphorus, which I had bought because the phosphate levels in my tank was too low. Do you suggest me adding it?

    ok thank you! I will add more fish as soon as I get more plants. I was thinking of adding otos, since the tank is already cycled. What do you think?
    What is topsoil? Have I really to add it now? It would be boring to remove the grave all over again :s
     
    #10 Francesco, Feb 21, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2012
  11. Francesco

    Francesco Junior Poster

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    ok, I read on the forum what EI means. However I still don't understand how to dose the fertilizers. What do you mean by saying "EI but 10-20X less"?
    Also, I didn't understand how to use the calculator. What does the graphic means? I have to dose the fertilizer daily, following the dose that the graphic shows for every day?
    Sorry again for all of the questions, but I really want to learn this method.
    Today I dosed 50% of the standard dennerle dosing and I added 1mL of excel. When I plant some other plants I will increase the dose to 100%. Am I right?
     
  12. Francesco

    Francesco Junior Poster

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    So, I added some crypt parva, pogostemon helferi and ceratophyllum demersus. I also added 5 otocinclus. Some pictures of my tank before adding otos:
    [attachment=1020:name]

    [attachment=1021:name]

    [attachment=1022:name]

    I'm dosing excel 1 mL everyday, and also the dennerle fertilizer following this program:
    0.6 of V30 / half tablet of E15 (potassium, iron and micro nutrients) depending on the week (one week I dose V30 and the other one E15)
    0.6 of V7 every week
    1.25 of seachem phosphorus every week.
    The plants are doing well, I'm only worried about the slow growth of the crypto parva, I don't know if it ever melts and carpets.
    I'm planning to add about 10 espei rasboras.
    What do you think?

    IMG_0036.jpg

    IMG_0039.jpg

    IMG_0038.jpg
     
  13. Francesco

    Francesco Junior Poster

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    can sombedoy help me, please?
     
  14. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
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    Well, Francesco, since you asked . . .

    I think that you are making this much harder than it need be.

    With a good substrate, some fish, and adequate lighting, you don't need to add any fertilizer at all. The fish will provide what the tank needs.

    In fact, if you do manage to figure out a dosing scheme, I would bet that you will not see significantly better results and run the risk of becoming an algae farmer.

    The main problem I have with my non-fertilized, non-CO2 tanks is finding plants that don't need too frequent pruning.

    Good luck!

    Bill
     
  15. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    You Really Do Not Need Much of Anything

    Hi,

    Crypto parva is just a slow grower, with or without CO[SUB]2[/SUB]; it is a good sturdy plant.:encouragement:

    Crypto parva is a root feeder and does spend quite a bit of time developing a root system.:)

    Root feeding is probably a good idea.

    I am with Bill, while I do not think it hurts to add a bit of fertilizers, I do not think you will need much.:cool:

    Biollante
     
  16. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    How large is the aquarium? Liters?
     
  17. Francesco

    Francesco Junior Poster

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    thanks for the reply. So are you suggesting me not to dose fertilizers at all? What about iron, potassium and all the nutrients that aren't in tap water? Also, I've been giving the fish a lot of food to increase NO3 but unfortunately the tank now is full of snails and I start to see some algae :S
    Also, the Pogostemon aren't doing very well, and I'm afraid they will be covered by algae... do you suggest taking them off the tank?

    it's a 10 gallon (40 liters) and about 50 cm large. I saw some very very little algae growth on the white gravel on the front. Should I decrease the fertilizers? Also, crypto parva lost a lot of leaves, and the pogostemon is almost gone View attachment 2918 View attachment 2919
     
  18. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
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    Well, yes I am.

    The nutrients that you mention will come from fish food via the fish, plus from the water and the substrate.

    And from the snails, of course.

    Bill
     
  19. Francesco

    Francesco Junior Poster

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    ok thanks! I will try. What about excel? Do I have to stop dosing it too?
     
  20. Francesco

    Francesco Junior Poster

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    please answer! I really don'y know what to do! I'm afraid that if I stop using excel I will cause an algae bloom. Also, I want to make the crypto grow a little bit before I stop using it, but I don't know how to dose the fertilisers (I have some green spot algae now)
     
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