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Fertilizer mix

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by Brian20, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    Hi everybody.

    In my atempt to make a multi fertilizer mix I bring down to this nutrients:

    K2SO4
    CaSO4
    CaCl2
    KNO3
    Plantex CSM+B
    MgSo4
    Chelated Iron

    I put the dryferts in a bottle and then use RO water to fill it. It have a reaction (Hot and a lots of bubbles) several minutes after it ends. There have a precipitate (white) and a very dark yellow like brown in the liquid. the question is. I arruined the mix or its works? I just shake the bottle and use it. All the particles dissolve in the aquarium.

    thankyou.
     
  2. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Could you list your quantities?

    CaSO4 isn't very soluble. CaCl2 creates nice big exothermic reactions, and the Fe Chelate (and CSM+B's iron chelate) will fizz when you add it to things. Adding it all at once must make for a nice show, but I'm pretty sure your ferts are ruined. Shaking the bottle isn't a great way to go for even dosing.

    First look up the solubility of CaSO4, be sure you aren't going beyond that.

    Next, you can try using the CaCl2 again but I'd mix it into solution first and wait until it's suspended before adding it to the main batch. I'd do that with everything if possible to reduce the possibility of precipitates. If the dilution doesn't work for the CaCl2, you may have to mix it in its own solution.

    Add some HCl in at the end; about 5ml of 100% pure HCl (or the equivalent of a diluted version, I use 14.5%) to prevent mold from developing.
     
  3. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    Thanks for you reply
    HCl mmmm that wil react with the Calcium, maybe it works to disolve the solution. Why the ferts are ruined? Because they dont disolve in the water? or make another compounds? I think the reaction was the Calcium and the Iron. (the fizz was between this two elements.) I dont want to continue experimenting with this products. dont want to create a bomb again.
     
  4. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Why would HCl react with CaCl2?

    The CaCl2 and the iron chelate will go off all on their own just adding them to DI H2O with nothing else in it.

    It's ruined if you don't know what you're holding in your hands. I can't give you more than an educated guess as to what compounds formed. The precipitate also means that even shaking, you'll probably find that begins to fall out of even suspension before you can pour it. This means your mystery precipitate (something calcium based) is going to be added in greater concentration as you get further through the bottle.
     
  5. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    Yeah, I understand. Well if it dont work for aquarium. Stilla fertilizer mix, it can work for garden, were no animals are involved?
     
  6. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    A chemist friend of mine said to me that Mg and Ca get losee of the sulphates. It make some acid, and it react with the Mg and Ca that they are very alkaline. And finally it have a calcium and magnecium salt precipitate. Finally im sad :(
     
  7. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    Also have some Iron salt. Finally the liquid is some kind of acid. Thats why in the reaction there have a bad odor, maybe sulphates or HCl. This make sense because when I use it in the aquarium it make little bubbles, fizz like reaction. Is like when you use Acid buffer from seachem. Somekind of reaction that convert the kH of aquarium in CO2 an H.
     
  8. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Sounds like a batch of nasty stuff. I'd start over. Don't worry; it just goes with mixing fertilizer. I've thrown away plenty of bottles from spoiling in various ways because I felt like experimenting or got one step wrong.

    If you want a proven method, try using KNO3 and KH2PO4 along with K2SO4 if you want extra K+ in one bottle. From there, do your Mg/Fe chelate/CSM+B in another. You can use HCl in both mixtures without worrying so long as you add it very diluted at the end, once everything else is dissolved.

    Keep the CaCl2 in its own mixture for now.
     
  9. hawkeye96

    hawkeye96 Junior Poster

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    Don't mix HCl with iron chelate. Yesterday i make micro+Fe-EDDHA solution. The color was very dark.
    But after i put in 2ml HCl, it's become more clearer.
     
  10. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    None of us have had problems with HCl and iron chelate as far as EDTA and DTPA goes, I mix batches with both pretty regularly. I'm not sure about EDDHA; it's designed to hold its bond under harder water conditions.
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    CaCl2 + water = exothermic reaction
    They use it for snow on roads to clear ice etc, it melts and is better than NaCl.

    If you use HCL, add it(HCL) first to the water, then after a few minutes, add the chelated traces.
    Always pour the acid into the water.

    That should solve most issues.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  12. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    Continuin to experiment.

    What you think about KNO3, K2SO4, Plantex and Chelated Iron conbination???

    CaSO4 and MgSO4 in other bottle and k2H2PO4 in other bottle?

    3 bottle of fertilitation
     
  13. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    or more convenient:

    Tom Barr:
    You do not add CMS+B/Chelated iron with KH2PO4 together.
    Just make 2 solutions, one with traces and the other with all the macros together.
     
  14. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    I've found the easiest method is:

    Macro Bottle: KNO3+KH2PO4+K2SO4
    Micro Bottle: MgSO4, CSM+B, Iron Chelate(s)
    Calcium Bottle: CaCl2 - Optional, I dose it on water change days for RO tanks, but the water here is already hard with low Mg so I separate it.
     
  15. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    thats sounds nice.

    I have acid for pools, muriatic adic I think. It works for what you say.
     
  16. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    In my intention to reduce it. I can mix the CaCl or CaSO4 with KNO3, KH2PO4 and K2SO4 ????
     
  17. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    what is the difference between CaSO4 and CaCl?
     
  18. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    I've had some nasty run-ins with CaCl2 in anything I've combined it with, but I probably need to work with it a little more carefully.

    CaSO4 is fine for dry dosing, but it has very low solubility so it's impractical for stock solutions. CaCl2 has very high solubility, but the endothermic reactions have made it difficult for me right now.

    I'll be hauling out my ferts in a day or two to mix a big batch; I'll try playing with some CaCl2 along side potassium based compounds to see if I can get something working.
     
  19. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    I will try to add CaCl first to water then, when the reaction ends, I mix the water with other macros. Hopefully this works or try again. The differences also include that CaSO4 brings SO4 to plants and CaCl brings Cl to plants or this not is relevant?If the doubt: Im kind of newbie to Calcium and magnesium fertilizers.
     
  20. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    ...............
     
    #20 Left C, Feb 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2010
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