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Eye Of The Shrimptigers 20g

Discussion in 'Journals' started by Kyalgae, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. Kyalgae

    Kyalgae Lifetime Members
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    Here are some post maintenance shots. I did some aggressive trimming, I am interested to see what happens next. I think ill dose micros tomorrow, whatever the manufacturer says of Flourish trace, and 0.07ppm Fe from the aquavitro.

    PuGgQH5.jpg l27e4Aj.jpg jmdw0PX.jpg
     
  2. Kyalgae

    Kyalgae Lifetime Members
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    I think going forward I will follow this schedule for a while.

    Sunday
    Dose micros 1.5mL Fluorish comprehensive
    Dose 0.07 ppm Fe (ferrous gluconate 'aquavitro propel')

    Monday
    Dose 0.07 ppm Fe

    Tuesday
    Dose 0.07 ppm Fe

    Wednesday
    Water change 50 - 80%
    Trim plants / clean
    Dose macros 13.77 ppm nitrates, 1.31 ppm phosphates and 0.07 ppm Fe

    Thursday
    Dose micros 1.5mL Fluorish comprehensive
    Dose 0.07 ppm Fe

    Friday
    Dose 0.07 ppm Fe

    Saturday
    Water change 50 - 80%
    Trim plants / clean
    Dose macros 13.77 ppm nitrates, 1.31 ppm phosphates and 0.07 ppm Fe
     
  3. Kyalgae

    Kyalgae Lifetime Members
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    I just changed over my co2 tank, and I was just wondering if anyone knew a reasonable mL/min for a 20 gallon tank, I used a 5mL test tube and measured a rate of 3.44mL/min going into my sera reactor. Is that any good?
     
  4. slipfinger

    slipfinger Article Editor
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    Flourish Trace, it's ingredients are basically the same as whats in the custom micros @burr740, @Greggz, @fablau and myself are currently dosing, if this is what you mean by "but with all this talk of custom micro mixes i feel like I'm doing something wrong using the stuff". I dosed it for a month before I got my hands on the raw ingredients, I did start to add a little extra B, just to get the ppm up. I'd have to read back in my journal to give you actual #'s..
     
    #104 slipfinger, Oct 9, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
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  5. Greggz

    Greggz Lifetime Members
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    In my 120G I inject 40ml/min. Which if is my math is correct, would be about 6.6ml in a 20G. That being said, I would rely much more on pH drop from degassed water. Even then, it's a rough estimate, but at least a measurement to adjust relative dosing to. If that makes any sense at all.
     
  6. Kyalgae

    Kyalgae Lifetime Members
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    I decided I'm just going to try dosing what you dose for a couple a weeks and see what happens, I have some CSMB coming in the mail.

    That's good to know, thanks for the info, I will just keep turning up my CO2 until my tank looks half decent, then I'll probably keep increasing it a bit more.
     
  7. Kyalgae

    Kyalgae Lifetime Members
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    Day 53

    I think I need to join lightoholics anonymous. For some reason, (I am going to blame light addiction) I added my other LED fixture to this aquarium. If you read back a while ago, before I shut this tank down, I had both fixtures running. I did it again this past week, but I think I did learn my lesson this time around. My plants did worse, I don't think they grew at all, and I did succeed in growing more algae. the odd think was that the plants were bubbling like ginger ale, and I figured this was a good sign. I guess it wasn't. I figured since my degassed water was pH 6.75, and I had a CO2 pH of 5.6, all would be well, nope. I also only managed to do one water change last week not the normal two, work has been nuts. So I only dosed my Macros/Micros once last week, probably not good.

    So going forward, I won't add more light, I won't, I won't, I won't, I promise(I'll resist the bright warm glow, I swear!). Yesterday I did my best to scrub/peroxide the algae, and remove the dead plant material. Today I cleaned my canister filter, and all sponges, because I noticed I seem to have a white bacterial bloom in the tank right now.

    I changed the flow pattern in my tank, previously the rear plants, as they got taller, would get the brunt of the current. Looking straight at my tank the current would come in hard from the top left corner right along the rear glass, then hit the tallest plants and blow them sideways, so I threw the spray bar back in the tank, and have more of a gyre going on. The shorter plants at the front are getting more water flow now compared to before, and my tall plants aren't getting blown around as much.
    lX7Lhub.png egOQOBM.jpg F9HEIi4.jpg O3fd78n.jpg
     
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  8. Kyalgae

    Kyalgae Lifetime Members
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    Day 68

    A few things have changed since my last update. I have always been battling with my reactors and things filling up with gas, which I seem to realize is the result of poor flow out of my canister filter. When I changed over to the spray bar my CO2 was not getting dissolved as well, and my pH was not dropping as much as before. I guess when you're playing with an Eheim 2215, a 19 watt pump, little changes seem to have a larger effect. I went back to a straight Eheim pipe out, but the flow was still too fast/concentrated for my liking. In the end I went back to my ADA lilly pipe, and that seems to have been doing a good job these past two weeks. It doesn't restrict the pump like the spray bar, and it has a wider output, making for a gentler flow.

    Leh85fF.png
    My current CO2 setup is an atomic diffuser feeding directly into my SERA 100 reactor. It's almost just like what @edelry.junior was doing with his 20g, but he fed the outflow of the Sera into a rex griggs style reactor, as a secondary step to dissolution, so he doesn't get any CO2 mist. I think he has a stronger pump than I do. When I was using a straight reactor, I would periodically get it burping large amounts of CO2 out of the outflow, the pH was dropping but CO2 was getting wasted. This atomic diffuser to SERA reactor sort of works like a hybrid system between pure mist, and pure reactor. The large bubbles out of the atomic diffuser get dissolved at the top of the reactor, in the fins, and only the tiniest of CO2 bubbles find their way out of the reactor into the tank, in a very fine, uniform mist. With straight atomic diffuser you get mist, but you also get large CO2 bubbles that pop quickly at the surface at higher injection rates if you look carefully. The atomic-SERA combo seems to be working well for me. @Tom Barr did a post a while back where the guy mentioned possible benefits of a CO2 mist here: https://barrreport.com/threads/good-co2-beginner-and-advanced-talk-on-youtube.14427/ Is some of the mist popping at the surface? Yes, but I would argue that a lot more spends time in the water column than just a straight ceramic diffuser. The mist looks better to me, I don't notice it as much in the water column, maybe because the mist is finer? Another observation I notice about the fine mist is that it attaches to small pieces of debris and brings it to the surface, where the skimmer removes it. I notice little bits loosed by the shrimp float up this way. If my CO2 can feed my plants, and clean up a bit that makes me happy. The most important thing though, is that my plants are responding positively. The Rotala bonsai seems to be shedding old algae, and it looks the healthiest I've seen it in my tank. I am reducing my light output by 30% going forward, and I will be interested to see what difference this makes, I'm guessing a positive result.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I seem to have done serious damage to my Hygrophila 'arguaia', Staurogyne repens, and Hemianthus 'cuba' using hydrogen peroxide. I've had those plants die back significantly over the past two weeks, whereas my Cryptocoryne crispatula, and Rotala, the only plants that didn't get the hydrogen peroxide, have been growing well. I plan on getting some more Hemianthus, and adding a Alternanthera renekii 'mini' in the large, gaping square hole in the back. I am concerned about the overall plant mass, the dieback has reduced it significantly, so I am buying some more plants to make up the difference. I moved the Hygrophila to the right, front corner of the tank in anticipation of this. The single stem of Myriophllum that has survived, will hopefully contrast well beside the Alternanthera when it gets bigger. Finally I moved my shrimp from the holding tank back to this tank tripling the number of shrimp in this tank. The first ten shrimp I tested in this tank have done very well, and have reproduced, so I figure it was time to reunite everyone.
    [​IMG] 17xWnLl.jpg
     
    #108 Kyalgae, Oct 29, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  9. skija

    skija Lifetime Members
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    Try this flow shown in the picture so the water goes round and round

    flow.jpg
     
  10. Kyalgae

    Kyalgae Lifetime Members
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    The only problem I have with that is that my Rotala will get blown sideways, and I'm attempting to grow them relatively straight, but I can appreciate how that would have more flow.
     
  11. skija

    skija Lifetime Members
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    Then swap the lily pipe with the skimmer
     
  12. edelry.junior

    edelry.junior Plant Enthusiast
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    Your stuff is pretty much like mine now. CO2 > Solenoid > Inline Difusor > Sera Reactor. I ditched the rex griggs diffusor for the sake of simplicity. I would say you are on the right path. Forget about peroxide. Just keep dosing the ferts it will suffice. I am still following my weekly routine, which totals are 30ppm NO3, 40ppm K, 10 PO4, plus .5ppm Fe-EDTA. I also add 0.2 Fe Gluconate daily. If you dose the ferts, keep the CO2 there, and water is moving around, it is a patience game. Keep it going man.

    On a side note: keeping a propagator for the emerse cultivation of some plants is something I would advice. Maybe for the plants you are having trouble with, or to keep them available for later? It is just quicker to grab a couple more stems when you need it, instead of buying it, etc. Plus you get to know the plant better, how they grow, shapes, etc. Psychologically it helped me, "okay, they look good here at the propagator. what can I change in the tank?"
     
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  13. edelry.junior

    edelry.junior Plant Enthusiast
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    I just went and read the last 4 pages of your thread, and I would like to say that you should be careful with your dosing. It is on the "light" side for me. Even when using ADA AS or similar, I would still weekly dose at least
    20ppm NO3 and 3ppm PO4, and at least 25ppm K (as weekly totals, assuming weekly water changes). But hey, thats me. That dying off of your myriophyllum looks a lot like a mobile nutrient deficiency, when the plants starts moving nutrients from the old leaves to the new ones. I would increase NPK (emphasis on P and K) and make sure you have enough Mg (3 Ca : 1 Mg roughly).
     
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  14. Kyalgae

    Kyalgae Lifetime Members
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    Thanks @edelry.junior for taking the time to look over everything, really appreciate your input. You nailed your tank, and I've been trying to emulate that, so I can have some success of my own. Which propagator do you use?

    My current dosing regime is:

    Weekly totals
    Macros (KNO3 & KH2PO4)
    20ppm NO3
    15ppm K
    4.8ppm PO4

    Micros (CSM+B 1/32tsp 3x a week)
    0.45 Fe EDTA
    - i had some gluconate, and the stuff started growing thick slime, I read on here that it's sugar based, so I guess something is eating my gluconate. It's just flourish Propel brand gluconate, maybe I should add some Excel to it? dunno, but I threw it in the fridge for the time being. I do like the simplicity of the the dosing of CSM. I will probably end up getting an auto-doser at some point.

    I could always pickup some K2SO4, which I think I will probably do. @Christophe mentioned I should add some of that when I was just starting the tank. Right now I only dose KNO3 and KH2PO4, and I figured there would be enough K, but Rotala butterfly says I have about 15ppm weekly. I'm not really sure how to figure out my Ca to Mg ratio, I honestly don't know how much Mg goes into the tank because the brand of remineralizer I have, 'Salty Shrimp' (I use KH/GH+ & GH+), doesn't list any of that information, only resultant degrees of hardness based on your dose.

    I do an 80% water change and I use RO water. I add the KH/GH booster first to 90 microsiemens (I use a TDS pen which I regularly calibrate), which is a pretty low KH, has to be near or lower than 1, I don't have the Lamotte kit to measure it. the KH/GH booster adds 0.5dKH to 1.0dGH. in that ratio. On the tub it says roughly 300 microsiemens is 3dKH. I add another 80 microsiemens of just straight GH booster, which is roughly 2.4dGH. All in all the water going in is:

    170uS
    0.9 dKH
    4.2 dGH

    I have no idea what my amount of magnesium is, I have to have some going in, right? What could a GH booster consist of, just Epsom salts? No idea really.

    I noticed @Pikez has been stressing cleanliness of the tank, and CO2 is something beginners neglect the most, so I have been focusing on that a lot. I clean sponges more religiously, and weekly I clean all the interior equipment of any algae, and it's really starting to payoff. One thing I did want to mention for those people who have Canister filters, get yourself a CPAP cleaning brush, they come in a listed diameter, they are cheap, and they did wonders for my tight plumbing. It's basically a brush on a long flexible metal spring. I cut of the metal looped end, and feed it in backwards, fish the spring through then pull the brush in last. Does a great job, and goes around tight bends. GHQcvxA.png
     
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  15. Kyalgae

    Kyalgae Lifetime Members
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    Quick picture, my Hemianthus and Alternanthera tissue cultures came in the mail today, the Cuba looks very pale on unpacking, we'll see...[​IMG]

    @Jason King sometimes I try to insert a picture like in this post, and it just shows a red X over a picture clip art, I try again and the picture embeds correctly, but I can't get rid of that picture error clip art, I don't see it on my end when I edit the post, anyway to delete it?
    [​IMG]
     
    #115 Kyalgae, Nov 1, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017
  16. Mike k

    Mike k Member

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    Nice call on the cpap brush!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. edelry.junior

    edelry.junior Plant Enthusiast
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    The propagator itself is not that important. You can use basically anything, or maybe do a wabi kusa. The point is just having the plants available. Here are some examples of stuff I tried. I started with just regular propagators. The wife thought they were too ugly, so I switched to the glass stuff, after the plants grew used to the lower humidity levels. Heck, I have ludwigia palustris growing on on the outside, over moss, and it is already 2 degrees celsius here in Hamburg. Here are some examples:
    C9ITphy.jpg

    I use aqua soil from JBL, a clone from ADA AS. It is layered on top of vulcanic rocks and some rich substrate. Maybe you could get away with less, but after the last 3 months of trial and error, I am sticking with these numbers (with aqua soil):

    Weekly totals

    1. Macros (from KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4)​
    • 30ppm NO3
    • 30ppm K
    • 9ppm PO4
    I roughly use a 8:2:1 ratio. 8 parts of KNO3, 2 parts of KH2PO4, and 1 part of K2SO4. This makes it easy for me to remember the solubity limits: 40g of KNO3, 10g of KH2PO4 and 5g of K2SO4 into 500ml. That is basically how much potassium you can add in half a liter. Doses vary according to your tank, of course .

    You can get away without the K2SO4, but I prefer to do so. Some plants in crowded areas start developing small holes if I don't. I could just pay more attention to the distance between the plants, true. Anyways, the potassium from KNO3 and KH2PO4 is more than enough. Some people just like to dose more.

    If I were doing 80% water changes, I would DEFINITELY dose at least this. This is the best scenario for me. If things go great you can start going lower, but not the other way around.
    I know I lard on PO4, I know :) Thats is also why I use Fe HEDTA.​


    2. Micros (from a custom mix I have made myself)​
    • 0.6ppm Fe. 75% EDTA, 12,5% DTPA, 12,5% HEDTA .
      I tried EDDHA, but I had some issues, when dosing 0,02ppm from EDDHA. Maybe it was something else, I have to confirm it. But hey, thats me.
    • 0.2ppm Fe Gluconate dosed daily. Fe Gluconate is very fragile, but easy to assimilate, so I dose it everyday.
    Manganese is dosed at a third from iron levels, together with iron
    Zn, Cu, Mo, B are kept in the ppb range (e.g. 0.00XX ppm), dosed together with iron

    Throw away the old slimy gluconate. If looks funny or smells weird, just dump it. Not worth it man. Also remember that gluconate is a much weaker complexing agent than EDTA, DTPA, etc. There is a PH range where it is effective. On a side note: most these complexing/chelating agents are sensitive to light and temperature. For instance, EDTA will break down in the presence of light. So store that stuff in a dark and cool place. You can definitely stick with CSM+B. Nothing wrong there.

    3. GH Booster (Equilibrium, Epsom Salts)​
    • After the water change, I add 2 dGH with Seachem Equilibrium, just because Equilibrium formula always worked for me (and I like the extra Fe/Mn).
      I tried doing my own with CaCl2, MgSO4 and K2SO4. I tried these because they are easy to dissolve. That is what most GH boosters add: Calcium, Magnesium and Potassium. Ca++ and Mg++ are the main components of GH.
    • 2ppm MgSO4 after the water change.
      I have a very good access to my water data here in Hamburg, so I know that I have too much Ca. I add some Mg to balance things out. Plants like Ammania Crassicaulis appreciate this extra care.
      Again, that is my reality and my experience. You have to see this for yourself.

      My KH is around 6-7, and GH is around 12.
    4. Glutaraldehyde
    • Seachem Excel or Similar.
      I do not dose it anymore, but my 60l had it every day, no exception. It really helps when trying to get rid of hair algae and similar stuff. I dosed 1ml per 10l, way above the indicated 1-2ml per 50L, for 2% Glutaraldehyde. It really depends on the plants, if they can take it or not, some do melt when overdosed. I never had any issues with it. I even killed some Hydras with it, by dosing 1ml to every 3 liters, during 3 days, and had no issues with any plant. Hydras and Hair algae were completely killed.
    Good call on the CPAP cleaners! ;)
     
    #117 edelry.junior, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
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  18. Kyalgae

    Kyalgae Lifetime Members
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    Thanks for that thoughtful post, the propagators look like a good idea, I'll have to get some going when I have a bit more time. Thanks for breaking down what you dose, I like comparing.

    Overall the growth has been very slow in my tank, last weekend I didn't trim anything. There just wasn't anything worth trimming. The plants look relatively healthy, very little algae, just a bit on the glass and substrate. I was thinking of going:

    30ppm K
    20ppm NO3
    5ppm PO4

    I want to see if it's a lack of potassium that's killing the growth. If nothing changes I'll bump everything the following week. I am just waiting for the potassium to get here in the mail, hopefully Monday. I just did an API nitrate test, I know, not very accurate, but it did show a nitrates were there, highish by their standards.

    I really have been pushing the CO2, I did kill a few of the weaker cherry shrimp, the ones that came anemic looking out of my filter. The CO2 mist does create noise in my pH reading though, the bubbles crowd around the probe. Once I start going over 1.25 relative pH drop the shrimp complain. So I am around 1.2 drop. Growth is just.....slow. I remember a time when it wasn't this slow. but that was an earlier tank setup not this one. Ill have to post some pictures of plants later when I have more time.
    X0iD0ek.png
     
  19. geektom

    geektom Junior Poster

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    Wow! That immersed set up with the rocks in the back left corner looks incredible! Any more pictures of it?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. Kyalgae

    Kyalgae Lifetime Members
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    After looking at what @Greggz does for his weekly maintenance I thought I'd better do the same, so I uprooted all my rotala, vacuumed the substrate under them, trimmed them, sorted them, then planted each one (67 stems whee!). Sorta looks like a bowl of fire. 98% of the new hemianthus cuba died off, I was right, it was too pale. Must have received an old tissue culture... Looks like the original 3 stems will have to do, I just have to play the waiting game. The alternanthera made it, and seems to be doing well. I'm quite happy the Rotala bonsai is algae free though, feels good. Don't really have an idea for an overall scape plan, so we call this farting around. Messed around with the light a bit, while taking some shots. Staurogyne looks like a dogs breakfast, so does the hygrophila, although it is the faster grower of the two.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #120 Kyalgae, Nov 11, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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