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Excel vs. CO2

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by George Farmer, Jan 12, 2007.

  1. George Farmer

    George Farmer Lifetime Members
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    I'm considering trying out Flourish Excel instead of CO2 in my 2.5 gal. nano.

    Plants are hairgrass and riccia (tied to stones).

    Light is 24w PC T5 - 6 hour photoperiod
    I dose KNO3 and TMG with each water change (50% every other day).

    Would the riccia be ok? I'm not bothered about pearling. I figured growth rates would be a lot lower, but would there be any other consequences i.e. algae?

    Your thoughts most welcome.
     
    #1 George Farmer, Jan 12, 2007
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Excel is an effective selective herbicide that can be used to kill Riccia.
    I've not found Excel that useful for Hair grass either.

    Generally, for msaller tanks, the Excel idea is useful.
    It works well with say, HC.

    All liverworts and things without stomata are killed pretty quick, it's not just Riccia, but the Pellia and a red liverwort and another type I've kept all died rapidly.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #2 Tom Barr, Jan 12, 2007
  3. shane

    shane Lifetime Charter Member
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    I have been using Seachem Excel to help exterminate green alagae in my tank. I have Riccia in my tank (at least I think it's Riccia) with no ill effects on it. It is growing like a weed.
     
    #3 shane, Jan 12, 2007
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Several other folks use it and it's killed their Riccia, I've used it on other liverworts specifically and it killed it in a few days.

    If you are dosing at the lower end, it might not kill it.
    I'd suggest easing into the use if you have sensitive plants.

    Others have reported rapid death of their Riccia when used.
    I guess I'll have to test it myself specifically.



    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #4 Tom Barr, Jan 12, 2007
  5. George Farmer

    George Farmer Lifetime Members
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    I've heard many reports of overdosing Excel killing "simple" plants - vallis and egeria too.

    I shall dose according to the bottle and see what happens. I'm planning a new layout soon anyway, so if it does go wrong then it's not the end of the (riccia) world...

    Cheers.
     
    #5 George Farmer, Jan 13, 2007
  6. 2wheelsx2

    2wheelsx2 Lifetime Members
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    It doesn't kill my Vals exactly, but it seems to stunt the growth. My vals and java fern were growing wildy at one point, so much so that there was inadequate water (and CO2) distribution in parts of tank. I was hitting little spots of bba in these area weekly, and what I noticed was that my Vals in that area stopped growing and also starting have a lot of yellowing leaves.
     
    #6 2wheelsx2, Jan 14, 2007
  7. detlef

    detlef Member

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    What about mosses? Anyone know if mosses like Javamoss is affected negatively by Excel with normal dosing amounts? Or would Excel even encourage growth? Currently I'm adding 0,8ml daily on a 21g. It seems as if Javamoss does not grow as fast as I was used to seeing it.

    Thank you,
    Detlef
     
    #7 detlef, Jan 14, 2007
  8. 2wheelsx2

    2wheelsx2 Lifetime Members
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    My java moss grows great with Excel.
     
    #8 2wheelsx2, Jan 15, 2007
  9. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Mosses also did fine for me too.
    Moss have stomata, Riccia does not nor do other liverworts, Vals do, but Hydrilla and Egeria also lack stomata.

    Excel may block the CA enzyme of these plants that have to take the CO2 through their outer epidemal layers.

    Hydrilla does not take uop Bicarb directly, rather, it produces lots of H+'s and acidifies the water and then reduces the HCO3 to CO2 and takes that up.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #9 Tom Barr, Jan 16, 2007
  10. George Farmer

    George Farmer Lifetime Members
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    Any thoughts on dosing Excel with Utricularia graminifolia - a bladderwort?

    This will be the only plant in my next layout, 6 pots on their way direct from Tropica, Denmark as we speak. :D
     
    #10 George Farmer, Jan 16, 2007
  11. detlef

    detlef Member

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    Good luck for your graminifolia nano, George. I'm sure it'll look as gorgeous as the last one.

    Thanks Tom, I'll see what I can do for the Javamoss and will continue adding Excel. I suppose I was too low on Ca and/or Mg. I'm growing Javamoss in an ADA soil tank which stripped the water column off of Ca down to around 7 to 10ppm for several weeks.

    Best Regards,
    Detlef
     
    #11 detlef, Jan 16, 2007
  12. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I've seen moss growing just fine in granite snow melt regions here in the mountains, I could not get a Ca or Mg reading with a Lamotte test kit.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #12 Tom Barr, Jan 16, 2007
  13. George Farmer

    George Farmer Lifetime Members
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    Thanks Detlef. The UG arrived this morning actually. I've got PFK's photographer around for a photoshoot of the current layout, then it will be torn down, ready for the UG. I will also be running Aqua Soil (powder) this time.
     
    #13 George Farmer, Jan 17, 2007
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