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Emersed carpet growing with Eco-Complete?

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by zed, Oct 17, 2008.

  1. zed

    zed Junior Poster

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    I've been reading this thread with interest:

    http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/3437-super-easy-method-start-new-tank-without-any-algae-any-issues-dosing-etc.html

    I have all the hardware together for my first 'high-tech' planted tank, and I'm now at the stage of buying the substrate, ferts, then plants.

    Because I see myself experimenting with the planting design, I chose Eco-Complete over Ada A/S due to the clouding issues.

    My question is whether the emersed growing technique ( I hope to grow a carpet of glossa and/or dwarf hair grass) detailed in the above mentioned thread works just the same with Eco-complete, or would I have to add any supplements?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    All you have to do is ask yourself if sand will grow plant better or soil in a terrarium.

    And there's your answer, ADA AS is used for an obvious reason, it has nutrients.
    EC, Flourite, sand etc, really do not. You could add ferts to the sediments like those etc if you want.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  3. zed

    zed Junior Poster

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    Tom, I thought Eco-Complete had some benefit over sand reading the marketing blurb :

    "Contains iron, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulfur plus and 25 other elements to nourish your aquatic plants. Iron rich Eco-Complete eliminates the need for laterite"

    I guess I have lots of reading to do on substrates before I order the Eco-Complete!
     
  4. phanmc

    phanmc Lifetime Charter Member
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    Eco-Complete has some micro-nutrients, not nearly enough potassium, and no nitrogen or phosphates. So you will be needing to add ferts when you humidify the tank.
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Well, the question is really about bioavailablility. while SiO2, glass, is made from silicone and O2, it's not a good source of bioavailable O2.

    The Fe might be very slowly available in the EC, but not many of the others.
    If it where in any real amount, the product would be dissolved in a few weeks:cool:

    Think about it.
    That is the whole ruse and issue with Touramline BC and the places that sell and make whacked claims about that mineral.

    Mud+ clay can hold a lot and the roots can penetrate and get at the nutrients since it's soft. ADA is sort of like that.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  6. Pockets

    Pockets Prolific Poster

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    I would still get ADA soil.... unless of course, you have a 10g with 100 Malaysian Trumpet Snails :p

    I uproot plants and either: move, give away, or discard all the time. I have the Amazonia II product and find that the clouding issue touted by some to be complete overstatement.

    Rather, expecting that with good substrate material as ADA soil is, the slightly cloudy water seen as a result of uprooting glosso and other similar ground cover, stem plants, and crypts, etc... to be expected. The water in my tank clears up by a factor of 50% within the next 3hrs and is back to 100% clarity within 24h.

    I don't know how big your tank is but the decision on what type of substrate to put in the tank is a very serious one and should not be taken lightly. Just think about the labor and time involved in changing it out. Also, once you mix one substrate with another the only way to start the tank over with one type of substrate is to pull all of it out and discard or put in other tanks:eek:
     
  7. zed

    zed Junior Poster

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    Thanks for the replies, which have given me some aspects to consider.

    Tell me about it Pockets, I've been tooing-and-froing (does that phrase even mean anything to those of you in the US??) over which substrate to use far too long.

    I started with ADA A/S, then decided to check the others out, settled in Eco-Complete, and now seems like I'm back to ADA .......maybe :D

    But, it's been a good ride - learning bits and pieces on the way.
     
  8. Pockets

    Pockets Prolific Poster

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    hey, isn't that a biblical term :D "from going to and fro"
    ---


    Guess what kind of substrate I have in my tank ?

    • Eco Complete .......< pretty good
    • Fluorite-red ......... < ugly
    • Fluorite-original .... < blah... not as dark as I like
    • Carib-Sea - Tahitian moon sand .......... < sand == messy
    • ADA Amazon I/II ..........< the best
    • First Layer - Laterite

    Its my first aquarium... so I thought it would be a good idea to not only be able to see for my self what each one looked like but also get the benefits of each type of substrate.

    :eek: I learned my lesson the hard way :eek:

    now my tank looks like a creek-bed full of different colors:confused:

    Next time I will be smarter about adding substrate to a large tank and put some in a 10g to see what it looks like and how well it works.

    I figure within 2009-2010 it will be 2-3yrs old and I will pull all out and discard
     
  9. zed

    zed Junior Poster

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    Hey, lets leave religion out of planted tanks :D

    That certainly is quite a blend of substrates you have going on.

    Mine is a 350L or 93 US gallon tank, so I'd like not to have to replace the substrate any time soon if I can help it.

    I like to do what I do in moderation, and can't help feeling I'd be over-indulging if I went for the ADA A/S.


    Looks like I may be growing my Glosso submersed in Eco-Complete after all!
     
  10. DaveSurfer

    DaveSurfer Prolific Poster

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    I'm just setting up a 33 gallon tank and will be doing the emersed HC. Two questions:

    1. I have Onyx sand. I know that it's not as good as soil for nutrients, but what can I add to the sand when i'm growing the emersed plants? I was just planning on mixing my macros and traces and spraying it on the plants every day.

    2. What other foreground plants other than HC is this successful with? I was planning on planting glossostigma and the small form Lobelia cardinalis around background of the HC and of course get some anubias started.

    Thanks for any help!! :)
     
  11. phanmc

    phanmc Lifetime Charter Member
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    That will work.

    Glosso, dwarf hairgrass, and anubias will grow fine emersed, not sure about the Lobelia. What will not work is Marsilea, it grows emerse but the emerse form is totally different from the submersed form (tall clover stems).
     
  12. DaveSurfer

    DaveSurfer Prolific Poster

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    Thanks for the tips! I'll be ordering some plants then :)

    I've only had the large form Lobelia and the emersed leaves (after getting the plant from the LFS) would die off and new ones would replace them. I'm thinking the small form Lobelia cardinalis is the same. It kind of falls under a stem plant I guess.

    What about Java fern? I was thinking about attaching some of the narrow leaf variety to the driftwood and spraying it too?
     
  13. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Dave,

    Java fern grows emersed in nature. It can be be found by streams and waterfalls where the leaves will not dry out, but the rhizome is out of the water. It uses it's strong roots to cling to wood and rocks.

    As long as the leaves and plant do not dry out, I should think Java fern should do well in this environment.

    That is why the humidity in the tank is important.

    Zed,

    If I had a 90 I would go with the ADA. Especially for a planted tank. The extra nutrients are worth it......

    I have a 45 I am thinking of using it in as a test........
     
  14. DaveSurfer

    DaveSurfer Prolific Poster

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    Thanks Gerryd! I think I'll attach some java onto the driftwood then. I'm wondering if it grows faster emersed or not...
     
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