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Electronic ways to reduce algae

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by oliverpool, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. oliverpool

    oliverpool Lifetime Charter Member
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    What do you all think about these new hi tech ways to reduce and fight algae?

    I understand that with healthy plants there is little reason to fear algae. But any help which does not slow plant and fish growth is probably worth looking and considering right?

    http://www.smsystem.com.sg/products/LG%20Sound.pdf

    http://www.twinstarnano.com/lang_en/

    The LG one seems to be suited more towards industrial use but can be used in a home tank.

    The twinstar one has a number of folks in Japan and Korea whom tested and love it. It's also much smaller and easier to integrate into any home tank.
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Not this stupid thing again. Twinstar anyway, (LG is something else).

    Spreads like a bad rash all over the web and frankly is snake oil.
    Anything electronic will use something like the carbo plus CO2 generator etc, and it gases like very similarly just like the carbo plus.

    Algaefix cost 5-10$ a bottle and will last a typical hobbyists a few years, this thing is 200$+ and needed upkeep.
    If it breaks and some will for sure, you are SOL.
    Algaefix will never break.

    But beyond that and algae generally, this product, and all products designed to kill algae do not teach hobbyists to grow plants.
    Good care prevents algae, simple as that.

    The test they show is so full of horse manure I do not even know where to start (And I'm being very nice).
    Do you really think they would show the skeptics and the tanks where it did not work?
    The description is so vague and this is a classic snake oil approach.

    Sonication is another method that may be used to kill algae, this unit might do that in a small area around the unit.
    But a UV would and does do the same thing.

    So with the mist coming off it, it looks more like a carbo plus unit, so just get a better CO2 system or add one. We never know if the test tanks have CO2 or not, or if the CO2 ppm are the same etc.
    Sort of a massive oversight in any test dealing with algae.

    Sonication requires a few obvious things, like no barriers that block the sound waves which will be greatly reduced if you have any hardscape or plant beds in the tank.
    So it does not kill all the algae, it only gets some of it in the open water and closer to the unit. That farther away, the less effective it is. Also, it's not cheap, I had a client that used one, did nothing to help.
    Sonication is often used to lyse cells. But there's a lot of energy in a very small space. And heat generated by all that energy in that very small space.

    I've used and tested some to kill aquatic plants/weeds.
    Here's a paper on it:

    Note: this in vitro test, not mesocosm or lakes.

    http://www.apms.org/japm/vol45/v45p076.pdf

    UV is a better solution for most of the smaller systems.
     
  3. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Not this stupid thing again. Twinstar anyway, (LG is something else).

    Spreads like a bad rash all over the web and frankly is snake oil.
    Anything electronic will use something like the carbo plus CO2 generator etc, and it gases like very similarly just like the carbo plus.

    Algaefix cost 5-10$ a bottle and will last a typical hobbyists a few years, this thing is 200$+ and needed upkeep.
    If it breaks and some will for sure, you are SOL.
    Algaefix will never break.

    But beyond that and algae generally, this product, and all products designed to kill algae do not teach hobbyists to grow plants.
    Good care prevents algae, simple as that.

    The test they show is so full of horse manure I do not even know where to start (And I'm being very nice).
    Do you really think they would show the skeptics and the tanks where it did not work?
    The description is so vague and this is a classic snake oil approach.

    Sonication is another method that may be used to kill algae, this unit might do that in a small area around the unit.
    But a UV would and does do the same thing.

    So with the mist coming off it, it looks more like a carbo plus unit, so just get a better CO2 system or add one. We never know if the test tanks have CO2 or not, or if the CO2 ppm are the same etc.
    Sort of a massive oversight in any test dealing with algae.

    Sonication requires a few obvious things, like no barriers that block the sound waves which will be greatly reduced if you have any hardscape or plant beds in the tank.
    So it does not kill all the algae, it only gets some of it in the open water and closer to the unit. That farther away, the less effective it is. Also, it's not cheap, I had a client that used one, did nothing to help.
    Sonication is often used to lyse cells. But there's a lot of energy in a very small space. And heat generated by all that energy in that very small space.

    I've used and tested some to kill aquatic plants/weeds.
    Here's a paper on it:

    Note: this in vitro test, not mesocosm or lakes.

    http://www.apms.org/japm/vol45/v45p076.pdf

    UV is a better solution for most of the smaller systems.
     
  4. PaulB

    PaulB Subscriber

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    Does anyone know what this thing actually does?

    The information on the device is complete BS and makes no sense, event the patent documents are BS.

    Does it create O2, O3, CO2 or is it doing something else.

    They are being advertised here as the must have device to fix algae problems and people seem to be falling for the marketing BS without even knowing how it 'cures' their algae problems.
     
    #4 PaulB, Feb 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2014
  5. UDGags

    UDGags Lifetime Charter Member
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    http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/twinstar-what-is-it.28335/

     
  6. PaulB

    PaulB Subscriber

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    I have previously read the 25 pages on the UK APS site but there is still no conclusive proof of what this does.

    The manufacturer states it not an ozone generator and there is no smell associated with the generation of ozone. Others claim it is an ozone generator.

    No one has come out with a conclusive statement on what this does and how it prevents / eradicates algae from the aquarium. Or how or why it seem to make the water clearer.
     
    #6 PaulB, Feb 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2014
  7. UDGags

    UDGags Lifetime Charter Member
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    Looks like ultrasonics to me. I'm sure it would only take someone 5 minutes to take one apart and find out.
     
  8. Christophe

    Christophe Subscriber
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    I've got an electronic device that reduces algae. It turns my lights off after a reasonable photoperiod. :D
     
  9. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    US will not harm the algae.
    I've used it on large aquariums, a much more powerful, transducer from LG sonics a Dutch company.
    The maker can say it's NOT an O3 geneator, but..........they also say all sort of horse manure as well.
    I do not trust anyone that does not state upfront what it is.

    Smells like BS, it usually is.

    The other thing would be an O2 geneator, splits the water into (H2)2 and O2. But this also forms some singlet O2 radicals as well.
    Still, adding O2 does not harm algae in anyway. O2 is much more toxic to fish than anything else in the aquarium.

    O3, I could at least say okay.........we KNOW it's a general biocide, samer with Glutaraldehyde etc.
    O2 is not. At least at the concentrations needed to do effective reduction in algae without killing your fish.

    I've added O2 at high levels, eg, 15 ppm etc, which is about 200%, lethal to fish.
    It did not have any significant effect on GSA, green water, hair algae or BBA.
    None.

    Now if the unit adds say an extra 1-2 ppm extra..then the tank might cycle faster, better, but if the tank has good O2 and you do water changes at the start to begin with, then you should not have issues.
    I do not think you are going to see much help from these units and folks have spent 200$ pretty much for nothing.

    At least with O3, we know it does something, simply adjusting the Lily pipe or using a different filter to start with(and they tend to cost much less than 200$), would yield the same result./effect if it's O2.
    I already did the test using pure O2 gas on algae with 4 small 6 gallon tanks and there was zero epiphytic algae differences on the glass slides that were used.
    Controls, has the same Chl a as did the high O2/low CO2, high O2 and high CO2 and the normal O2 and the high CO2 treatments.
    I did a total of 4 replicates.

    So.............either the Twinstar really has no impact and there are many better ways to address things.......... for more O2...........or it's O3 and you could argue there's some general biocide activity that does not harm fish or plants, bacteria etc, but does kill or harm algae a bit more selectively than the livestock we keep.
    These are the only two real choices here.
    Some ADA fan boy locally will get one, I'm sure. I'll see pretty fast with a redox and the O2 meter.
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    US will not harm the algae.
    I've used it on large aquariums, a much more powerful, transducer from LG sonics a Dutch company.
    The maker can say it's NOT an O3 geneator, but..........they also say all sort of horse manure as well.
    I do not trust anyone that does not state upfront what it is.

    Smells like BS, it usually is.

    The other thing would be an O2 geneator, splits the water into (H2)2 and O2. But this also forms some singlet O2 radicals as well.
    Still, adding O2 does not harm algae in anyway. O2 is much more toxic to fish than anything else in the aquarium.
    Algae is amazingly tolerant to high super saturation of O2. Greens as much as any plant.

    O3, I could at least say okay.........we KNOW it's a general biocide, samer with Glutaraldehyde etc.
    O2 is not. At least at the concentrations needed to do effective reduction in algae without killing your fish.

    I've added O2 at high levels, eg, 15 ppm etc, which is about 200%, lethal to fish.
    It did not have any significant effect on GSA, green water, hair algae or BBA.
    None.

    Now if the unit adds say an extra 1-2 ppm extra..then the tank might cycle faster, better, but if the tank has good O2 and you do water changes at the start to begin with, then you should not have issues.
    I do not think you are going to see much help from these units and folks have spent 200$ pretty much for nothing.

    At least with O3, we know it does something, simply adjusting the Lily pipe or using a different filter to start with(and they tend to cost much less than 200$), would yield the same result./effect if it's O2.
    I already did the test using pure O2 gas on algae with 4 small 6 gallon tanks and there was zero epiphytic algae differences on the glass slides that were used.
    Controls, has the same Chl a as did the high O2/low CO2, high O2 and high CO2 and the normal O2 and the high CO2 treatments.
    I did a total of 4 replicates.

    So.............either the Twinstar really has no impact and there are many better ways to address things.......... for more O2...........or it's O3 and you could argue there's some general biocide activity that does not harm fish or plants, bacteria etc, but does kill or harm algae a bit more selectively than the livestock we keep.
    These are the only two real choices here.
    Some ADA fan boy locally will get one, I'm sure. I'll see pretty fast with a redox and the O2 meter.
     
  11. UDGags

    UDGags Lifetime Charter Member
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    Yeah, I believe a couple people have taken it apart...I either saw something in a Facebook Group or a forum where someone tested it. I think it might have been the AGA Facebook group...I believe we both commented on the post.
     
  12. UDGags

    UDGags Lifetime Charter Member
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