EI Dosing considerations for 180 gallon tank

[RukoTheWonderDog]

Howdy all-

I'm looking for some suggestions/thoughts/shared experiences on EI dosing for my 180 planted setup. I've been using the EI method for a while with good results, but unfortunately lost nearly my entire plant stock when the Northeast got blasted with that killer week long 100 *F heat wave in July (I'm originally from GA, so I know this isn't hot in other parts of the country, but we rarely get prolonged temps like that in NY). Most of my plants dissolved in a matter of hours when the tank temp hit about 95 degrees, and I did not have a chiller to stop it.

I've made some changes to the tank and have a new shipment of plants coming later this week, and just want to maximize plant growth.

Here are some details on the tank, if you want to know.

*******note*******

I've pushed the envelope with this setup, found that some ideas work on paper only, and done many things that "are not recommended". So, as you read this, keep in mind I researched this for a solid year before starting it, and did the things that you aren't supposed to do anyways. And it's been a blast.

*****************

Tank, Filtration, & CO2 - The tank is a standard 6'x2'x2' 180 gallon Perfecto w/ twin overflows and a 50 gallon W/D sump. The CO2 is run by a VWR Dual Stage, High Purity reg w/ a Burkert 6011, 2x Ideal V54-1-12 SS needle valves (Ideal sent me SS units by mistake...I'm not complaining!), and 2 x JBJ bubble counters. Gas is delivered directly into the twin Quiet One 4000 pumps via venturi tubes on the intakes. I get good pearling on the plants, my drop checker shows vibrant light green (not that I really trust a DC as a reliable indicator), and the fish are comfortable without heavy breathing or signs of stress.

Lighting - Light is supplied with a 72” AquaticLife 8x39w T5HO fixture. The stock bulbs were replaced with Giesemann 4 x AquaFlora and 4 x Midday 6000Ks. This is a newer fixture for me, so I am still experimenting with lighting schedules. Any suggestions of light time cycles would be cool too!

Livestock - The tank is heavily stocked with a full SA community. This has added another level of complexity as they produce a moderate amount of nitrate and phosphate themselves. I find myself having to watch & test levels on a regular basis, but have a good handle on feeding and dosing schedules to work off of each other to prevent excessive buildup of NO3 & PO4.

Water - Our water in western NY is highly chlorinated, has 8.2 pH out of the tap, and TDS at least 150 and sometimes upwards of 350 ppm. My water here can come from three sources, and all have different parameters. I run an RO unit for water consistency and reconstitute the water to roughly gH of ~ 5.0 - 6.0 and a kH of about 3.0 - 4.0 using Epsom Salt, CaCO2, baking soda, a tiny amount of lemon juice, and a little marine salt for other trace elements. The water is also treated with peat moss to add some tannin to the water.

Ferts - KNO3, KH2PO4, CSM+B, and Flourish. I alternate CSM+B and Flourish only because I won a years supply of Flourish in a LFS contest. My dosing comes out to roughly 1 1/2 tsp of KNO3, 1 tsp of KH2PO4, and 1 1/2 tsp of micros each about 3 times a week. The tank gets a 55 gallon water change every 4 days or so.

I'm curious to see what others with a similar size tank and/or planted community tank use for a dosing schedule. Any thoughts/suggestions/criticism would be appreciated; I'm not a 'guru' by any means and am always open to advise from the Pros.

thanks in advance-

 

[dutchy]

Hi,

Sounds ok to me. I dose 30 ppm of KNO3, 3 ppm of KH2PO4 and 1 ppm of Fe per week + other traces from CSM+B. I do that just once per week. I use 100% tapwater which gives me GH 8 and KH 6.
Maybe you can post a pic?

You can view the tank by clicking my signature.

 

[RukoTheWonderDog]

Dutchy-

Thanks for the reply. I hoped you would catch this...I'm a big fan of your tank.

I am embarrassed about the tank in its current state; the plants that survived are pretty beat. The dead plant matter that washed into my sump caused a huge nitrate spike, which in turn caused a giant BBA outbreak, which then resulted in even more plant death and destruction. I was so upset I yanked all the hardscape and decided to start over again.

Here is the tank in its very sad recovery stage; the new manzanita is not quite sunk yet, the vals & anubias are going into the Festae tank, and I just trimmed and replanted the Starou in the front.

This was the tank back when the plants had been established and were starting to grow well in early December. It is the last picture I took of the tank, which sadly does not represent the way it looked at it's peak.

I found this fantastic stump when I was hiking the Genesee River gorge a few weeks ago. It is still soaking but will be the centerpiece of the hardscape when it sinks.

The regulator.

When I can find where the roommate hid her Rebel, I'll see if I can get some good pictures of livestock and such. This point and shoot camera just isn't cutting it.

 

[Gerryd]

Hi,

Lights

1. What is the duration of the photoperiod?
2. Do you use all 8x39w for the full duration?
3. Does your fixture have zones of bulbs? Where zone a is bulbs 1 and 4 and zone b is 2 and 3?

I have the 12x39 on my 180 and I only use 4 bulbs and I also use the standard mounting legs..I go for about 9 hours daily..

Filter

1. Do you have each pump hooked to a wier? Can you detail this a bit more?

Flow

1. Any powerheads in the tank?

EI

1. I dose in my 180 the following every other day with micros about 6 hours after macros

2 tsp of potassium nitrate
1.5 tsp of mono potassium phosphate
50 ml of csmb trace

I use plain flourite. What is your substrate?

What are your GOALS????????

 

[RukoTheWonderDog]

Gerry-

The duration of the photoperiod is 10 hours. I have the fixture set up with Zone 1 running 4 bulbs all 10 hours, with zone two running the other 4 bulbs for a two hour period mid day. Do you have better results with a 9 hour day?

On the 8 bulb fixture, Zone 1 controls bulbs 1 & 3, while Zone 2 controls bulbs 2 & 4. I am also using the mounting legs, but will probably suspension mount the fixture this weekend.

1. Do you have each pump hooked to a wier? Can you detail this a bit more?

I'm not sure what you mean by a weir? There is a weir in the sump? I can supply pictures of the filtration tomorrow. There are no powerheads in the tank as the returns supply ample flow throughout the tank. Each of my two return pumps are rated at 725 GPH @ 4ft head; they really move some water. The outputs from the sump aim down, sending the CO2 mist right to the substrate.

What time do you dose? I try and dose right around tank 'sunrise'

The substrate is a 2"-3" bed of pool filter sand. The sand is several years old now, and has 90 pounds of the original sand from my old african cichlid tanks mixed in as well. I have continually added the earthworm castings from the years of feeding worms to my large Festae to the sand as well. Even though the festae eats 5 worms in a sitting, I am nowhere remotely close to the recommended 50/50 ratio of castings to sand. There is a good deal of mulm and other particle matter in the sand, and the appearance of the sand is considerably darker from the added goodies. It's not as rich as I would like, but it is far from sterile. If substrate nutrients become a problem, I'll do root tabs/osmocoat/earth worm castings using Tom's ice cube technique.

I have several reasons for using sand over a mineral substrate:

1. I like the looks of it, and the way I see it, that is the whole point ^_^
2. The fish dig, play, and sift the sand for food - some even eat it for aiding digestion. The acara are like small backhoes when they are breeding, and it is extremely amusing.
3. My tank has a lot of fish, and they poo a lot. Pool filter sand is really easy to clean.
4. It doesn't get pockets of anerobic bacteria.

The goal?

My goal is to have a community tank that is as lush and green as it can be. The fish in the tank are my primary focus, but I will do everything I can to make the plant life flourish. I'm not looking for the perfect manicured tank and I know I won't achieve it with the fish I keep. They dig, and eat, and sometimes just tear the plants apart for S&G. To me, that is all part of the fun of it.


Dutchy-

You only dose once per week? I'm guessing immediately after a water change?

Also, what do you use for dosing iron? I'm guessing I will need it as I do not have an iron rich substrate.

thanks again guys-

 

[dutchy]

I dose immediately after a water change. The iron just comes from the CSM+B, I don't dose anything separate. I dose only once because I'm lazy and it works well. If the consumption was higher I'd probably dose 2x per week to avoid very high values at the beginning of the week.

I use a 10 hour photoperiod with all bulbs on and they are just 3 inch above the water surface. kind of high light but I can get away with it because of good CO2.

If your goal is a lush planted tank CO2 is your greatest concern. Adding ferts is the easy part.

 

[maxtcee]

Hi,

Lights

1. What is the duration of the photoperiod?
2. Do you use all 8x39w for the full duration?
3. Does your fixture have zones of bulbs? Where zone a is bulbs 1 and 4 and zone b is 2 and 3?

I have the 12x39 on my 180 and I only use 4 bulbs and I also use the standard mounting legs..I go for about 9 hours daily..

Filter

1. Do you have each pump hooked to a wier? Can you detail this a bit more?

Flow

1. Any powerheads in the tank?

EI

1. I dose in my 180 the following every other day with micros about 6 hours after macros

2 tsp of potassium nitrate
1.5 tsp of mono potassium phosphate
50 ml of csmb trace

I use plain flourite. What is your substrate?

What are your GOALS????????

hey i know this thread was dead but what are you dosing for iron and gh excel? also what are you using for co2 dyi or pressurized ?

i currently have a 180 started low tech but got bored so went hi tech but cant find a decent dosing regime seems like everytime i dose el my fish strive for air so forces me to cut it in half cant figure it out also recently i notice my plants are loosing roots and fall apart at the touch maybe you can help

 

[Gerryd]

hey i know this thread was dead but what are you dosing for iron and gh excel? also what are you using for co2 dyi or pressurized ?

i currently have a 180 started low tech but got bored so went hi tech but cant find a decent dosing regime seems like everytime i dose el my fish strive for air so forces me to cut it in half cant figure it out also recently i notice my plants are loosing roots and fall apart at the touch maybe you can help

Hi,

This thread is so old I no longer have the tank....

 

[Tom Barr]

I dose immediately after a water change. The iron just comes from the CSM+B, I don't dose anything separate. I dose only once because I'm lazy and it works well. If the consumption was higher I'd probably dose 2x per week to avoid very high values at the beginning of the week.

I use a 10 hour photoperiod with all bulbs on and they are just 3 inch above the water surface. kind of high light but I can get away with it because of good CO2.

If your goal is a lush planted tank CO2 is your greatest concern. Adding ferts is the easy part.

I also dose right after WC's, and I tend to do WC's maybe 1-2 hours after the lights come on.
Tank is mad pearling at the end of the day, which makes a good reference for the non WC's days.

Agreed, ferts are easy, the CO2/current, filter etc...those tend to take more time and tweaking.

 

[maxtcee]

Hi,

This thread is so old I no longer have the tank....

Well can you at leaste tell me what you were dosing if you remember thanks

 

[Gerryd]

Well can you at leaste tell me what you were dosing if you remember thanks

Best as I can remember was 1.5-2 times the basic EI dose for a 180 gal. I used TPN at the time for traces instead of CSMB.

 

[maxtcee]

So you didn't use anything for gh or ironn?

 

[Gerryd]

Nope. I use a little EDTA iron now in my 220 but not back then.

I used gh booster once or twice but it didn't seem to have an impact so I stopped using it.

 

[maxtcee]

Ok thanks I'm gonna try your dosing method see how that works

 

[Biollante]

Perhaps a New Thread?

Ok thanks I'm gonna try your dosing method see how that works

Hi,

Some of the water amendments have to do with what is in your tap water.

Have you looked at your water report?

Do you mind sharing where you are located?

Biollante