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Eheim Pro 3+ AM 1000 question.

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by yashaswibs, Nov 29, 2009.

  1. yashaswibs

    yashaswibs Prolific Poster

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    Hello everyone,
    This is more a question about eheim than AM 1000.
    I purchased a Eheim pro 3 2180 to power AM1000 co2 reactor. Initially it worked ok but gradually the flow through decreased to a trickle in 2 wks. I cleaned out the filter made sure there were no kinks in the system and put it all back together and I still have the same problem of no flow.

    There are several problems I am facing with this filter
    1. It weighs a lot when full of water and there is no way to empty any of it while moving.
    2. Water spilled through the clamps when I tilted it after disconnecting the top.
    3. Only one of the pipes was moving water even at its prime.
    4. Priming has been unsuccessful- the pump cannot be pushed down- the ad says it can be pushed down by 1 thumb- not possible.

    The co2 is not dissolving at all and the gas was backing up so I discontinued it.
    I will be quite happy to add any more details if needed.
    Thanks for helping me through the teething process.
    Yashaswi
     
  2. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    I hate to ask, but did you assemble it correctly after you cleaned it?

    I would take the filter apart and compare it to the instruction manual. If you don't have it, I bet you can find it at the Eheim web site.

    It sounds like you zigged when you should have zagged, esp as you say it worked for the initial 2 week period.

    Hope this helps.
     
  3. yashaswibs

    yashaswibs Prolific Poster

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    It did work initially and then petered out so my initial set up itself might not have been accurate. I took it apart because it was not moving water and eventually there was no change in the end result.
    I did try to compare it to the eheim pics and it looks about the same except the guy is able to prime with one finger and I cant do it with my entire palm.

    Am I sure I have set it up right- almost certainly not- just cant find out what is wrong and I hate to tear the damn thing down again especially since it is huge and difficult to move.
    There is air all through the tubing- cant say if this is co2 or air.
     
  4. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Is this the one with the dual intakes and single return?

    If so, you might try the following...

    Check the basked orientation. It's not that hard to rotate one of the baskets in a 2028 filter and block the proper water flow. I don't know if the 2180 can misalign the tubes in the baskets in the same way but you should be able to check this easy enough.

    Plug one of the intakes somehow and try to get it running. When you get that working, block off the working intake and unplug the other one and make sure that's working as well. Once that one is working open both of them and see if it stays working.

    If there's no flow through the unit at all, you can try a manual purge using something like a python no-spill. If you have enough water in the tank, you can set the python to suction and use that on the outlet and then just set the pump flow control to wide open. Block off the intakes as in the above paragraph and proceed from there. This SHOULD deal with any airlocks in the unit by sucking them out.

    An alternative would be to set the python to just be a normal hose from the faucet and feed into the intakes. This will certainly kill the bacteria in the filter due to chlorine/chloramine but if the filter isn't working anyway you may not care. The pressure should also purge the pump of air but you're more likely to have one heck of a mess due to pressure popping the hoses you're holding out of each other. Also, the python may not have the right size hose diameter for any of this. I use a short piece of thinner hose as an adapter. Because of this even the slightest bit of pressure makes it easy for the ends to pop out, and I'm usually across the room by the sink when it happens. The suction method in the prior paragraph helps cut down on this kind of flood.

    Hopefully this gives you some ideas on how to get it running. I've read this working/not working issue happens often enough on some other forums. Usually one of the intake hoses has a small leak which lets in air and the whole filter eventually loses prime and stops. The hose tests I mentioned should at least determine if water flows through the filter. If there's major resistance then something is wrong internally and you should check the media basket orientations.

    -
    S
     
  5. yashaswibs

    yashaswibs Prolific Poster

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    The basket can go in only one way and I guess that is the right orientation.

    I did fill both the intakes with water,along with filling the output. I tried pumping the primer couple of times with modest result and plugged it in. The water flow improved from about 2gallons per hour to 4 gph. I repeated this again with filling and pumping and initially there was some noise of air gushing through the filter and it went back to 4-5gallons per hour output. I have switched off the co2.

    There is no visible air in the system except in am1000 reactor.
    Would love to have atleast 200gph.

    Will carry out any other ideas you guys may have.
    Thanks for your replies.
     
  6. S&KGray

    S&KGray Guru Class Expert

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    The instructions say to keep the output above water when priming, so maybe filling the output hose isn't a good idea.

    Also, I would follow the suggestions that shoggoth43 gave.

    My 2080 has been running fine for a year now and I have only cleaned it once since I got it. No major reduction in flow after running for five months straight now.

    Edit: I have it running on a 125g mbuna tank along with two 2217's
     
  7. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    I have the Pro 3e version, 2078. Priming is a pain in the a55. I eneded up filling both inlet and outlet. But the pump has a tendency to be overflooded when doing this and you end up with plain of water on the floor. The worst priming thingy in all Eheim stuff (I used Pro I, ProII and Pro III series). I'm not a noob, but this one is false claiming despite their instructions screaming to be the easiest priming filter. On next WC, I'll try a priming with the filter completely empty, no water at all, maybe it will help, but I doubt it.

    I'm now scared to next maintennace, as I'm not sure I'll be able to prime it again. It took me... 3h and got it working by luck.

    Another common error with those filters if you're used to previous generations is the chance you forget the locking mechanism on "Off" mode and the taps on tubing remain closed to any water flow.

    Finally, try to check if the ceramic part of the pump is not broken

    For debugging it, better put the filter with temp tubing in the bath and train yourself to prime it there until you find how to do

    Let's us know, we could maybe help you finally. When I do my next filter maintennace, I'll do it on a long spare time (whole day!!), away from the aquarium, in the bathroom, to be able to understand the trick to prime it safely

    PS: I of course tried to maintain outlet above water level and emptied prefilter chamber, like they ask to do, it is easier to prime a 2024 than this electronic new crap
     
  8. yashaswibs

    yashaswibs Prolific Poster

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    Thank you for a much needed mail Jonny.

    I have spent the most frustrating day with my eheim pro3 and have no (nil/nada/zilch) results to speak of. I seriously hate the bloody thing. My dog kept licking my face to wipe off the anger. After calming down I tried to think things through. I did not succeed.

    I have been studying prior mails like I am about to give my boards and then tried following most instructions to the tee. I know eheim manual better than my textbooks and I should have received continuing education credits for the amount of studying I did here. Frustrating, exasperating, annoying and eventually I have to look at the filter and understand that cutting edge technology is euphemism for "I have not worked out all the bugs yet". Bloody hell!!. How have all the geniuses been giving this filter rave reviews all over the internet? Which buffoon decided that the priming pump should be designed so that it is pushed down by just your thumb (in my case right thumb- very important, meal providing thumb- which is now afflicted by tenosynovitis due to repeated trauma of priming the blasted thing) I am lucky enough to be able to throw the thing and have a back a filter with my loving Fluval FX5.
    I am flying out for a vacation for 4 days. Will be back to try this again. But then again why bother. Dump the damn thing and feel like I bought a bad computer which is giving me grief. I will likely find plenty of ways to get the CO2 reactor to work (which is another piece of work mind you- threatening to slip off the tubing at the slightest hint) .
    Eheim customer service is another joke- mailed them and all they asked was where I was located. After I told them they have not mailed back at all.
    All in all bad day. I guess the expectations are higher when you buy top of the line luxury item.
    Why in the heavens name priming this damn thing so difficult? Why does addition of some co2 in a outlying reactor cause so much grief? Why have a external reactor in the first place then? Should I start buying the knock off Jebo filters as they might have seen ze Germans and laughed and evened out a few kinks and priced the filter without a zero at the end?
    All the above questions are rhetoric- answers need not be provided- will help if it is provided.

    Just so that this forum does not turn into group therapy session I will throw in some details of what happened. I added water to the intakes (twice) and tried priming it- no luck. I then removed water from intakes and out put and tried priming it, I then added water to the intakes only and tried priming it, I then pinched off each intake by turn in the hope of providing some incentive to get the other intake rolling- no luck.
    The water now is quite still in this piece of exalted machinery- it is on but you would not be able to guess that looking at the output.
    So what have I not done- I have not tried sucking the water out of output using python.

    This mail is not meant to offend anyone but if it rattles anyone please let me know.
    There have been some very well thought out mails but unfortunately for me nothing has worked.
     
  9. yashaswibs

    yashaswibs Prolific Poster

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    I think you are right Jonny, the entire filter- in and out- needs to be empty before attempting to prime it. That is the other thing I have not tried.
     
  10. S&KGray

    S&KGray Guru Class Expert

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    Hmm, I can't remember now if the canister and/or intake hoses were empty when I primed my 2080. The reason I don't remember much is because everything went very smoothly. Sorry you are having so much trouble and hope you get it working soon.

    As a side note, even though the baskets and other features of the Pro series are nice to have, I still prefer the Classic series because of the simple, easy to use design, that works well. Also much easier to empty the filter when cleaning (through the intake on the bottom of the filter).

    PS. If it comes to the point that you want to throw it away maybe you could give it to me instead... :)
     
  11. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    You're lucky yashaswibs, I had no one to lick my face when I was so angry with only one wish: throw the damn thing against a wall. It worked, finally, with the AM1000 inline, but don't ask me why. Guess what, I want to open it again since 2-3 weeks now to remove some media, but I fear it. I'm not sure I'll be able to prime it in less than half a day.

    I'm thinking now at something. It could be not primable using the AM1000 for a simple reason: The AM1000, full of water, makes it impossible to have the outlet free of water, like they state it should be (outlet above water level). So, when opening valves and priming, a few water is succed through outlet and could make it impossible to prime.

    The only solution I see is to use the universal setup kit from Eheim that makes it very easy to fully fill the filter while it is connected. Once plugged in, it should run. If not, unplug and fill again a bit, until it will run. I really think it is the only way to make this damn thing work with the AM1000
     
  12. yashaswibs

    yashaswibs Prolific Poster

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    Thanks for the mails guys.
    S&KGray- do you have a AM1000 connected too, if not that is likely the culprit.
    Jonny is right about priming and AM1000. I think I will try inline diffuser instead.
    Does anyone have a co2 reactor connected to Fluval Fx5?
     
  13. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    I just thought of some other things I've done.

    If you have the inlet and outlet hoses filled, on the 2028 I have I generally don't mess with priming it too much. If the hoses are filled I will open up the valve and them pop one or two of the clamps to let the air out. This generally fills up the unit to the point where I cen get it to prime with the button.

    I have one of those hydor inline heaters in the out put and sometimes nothing works until I move it around until the hose has no loops in it. I.e. The air has a nice smooth path up to the top of the outlet to the tank and can't get stuck.

    Maybe one of these ideas will help?

    You are correct though in that these cannister filters have also given me some serious grief
    In the past. I'm likely to go with a sump configuration in all future tanks simply because of the priming problems with these.

    -
    S

     
  14. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    What shoggoth43 adds clearly indicates that having something blocking the air parth on outlet will cause this priming issue. That's why they ask that the outlet be above surface. The problem is that emptying the AM1000 each time is a no go for most.

    I'm sure that once the filter hosing connected, manually filling it completely through inlet will make the pump run without any priming, except some pushes to clear out air once the pump runs. At least it worked with all previous generations and with all other external pumps. Those priming gadgets were supposed to avoid this manual step. Now, to fill in the filter through hose, the best way is using those installation kits on inlet. There's a tap that makes it easy to fill the system. I'll try it on my next filter maintenance, in few months though
     
  15. yashaswibs

    yashaswibs Prolific Poster

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    I have taken some photos of the intake and out along with reactor. Is there any way to post it here. Also I was thinking of what Shoggoth says- no loop which stops the air from going out. There is a definite loop with reactor there, also the reactor also has air in it. All sources of trouble but what is the solution. I personally cant see how to make this unit run. Removing AM1000 is unfortunate and I will have no real way of non messily putting in co2.
     
  16. S&KGray

    S&KGray Guru Class Expert

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    I do not have anything inline on my 2080 as it is on my 125g mbuna tank at the moment. I will be adding an inline diffuser or reactor to a 2217 that is currently running on my 55g planted once I get my pressurized CO2 setup.

    I also forgot to mention I have the Eheim installation intake(x2) and output kits on my 2080. I think I did use the capped opening on the top of the to fill the intakes before priming (left the lever off so water didn't run into the canister, filled intakes, then turned lever on and primed). Also, I have no loops in output hose so the air has a straight path out.
     
  17. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    You just have to fill it manually to begin. Just disconnect the part where hoses are connected using the lever, fill in the filter to the max and reconnect the whole. If it hangs up when you plug in the electricity, repeat the steps untill it is filled, it will run. But take care, it can flood on the floor when you fill it with the hosings disconnected using the lever part. I primed it that way as I don't have the kit installed yet. If you connect using the Eheim Installation kit, no flooding when you fill the whole thing and it will run on the first try, I'm sure. All filters start no problem when filled through connected hoses that way.
     
  18. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    other ideas...

    Can you shorten the hoses somewhat to remove the loops?

    Alternately, instead of loops, maybe you can coil them sideways so that they look like a coil of rope on the ground. So long as the air can slowly slide along the tube UP towards the outlet and tank that may be enough.

    Another possible option is to get the AM1000 out of the loop ( as it were ) temporarily and just empty the outlet into a bucket or something. The siphon action alone from the tank should force all the air out of the inlets and prime the filter. You should then be able to close off the valves and reconnect the outlet to the AM1000 then then be good to go as long as there's no loop above the reactor.

    -
    S


     
  19. yashaswibs

    yashaswibs Prolific Poster

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    I removed the co2 reactor and it worked fine. Now how do i get it to work with reactor or should I just use other ways of putting in CO2. What do you guys think of inline diffuser?
     
  20. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Great that you tested, now we are sure of this thing

    You should really use the Eheim installation kit on th eintake to fill the filter before plugging in the electric cord. It will solve your headache. The AM1000, in my opinion, is a great CO2 reactor. But you can also take a look at Up CO2 Atomizer here
     
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