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E.I Dosing????

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by I Love Aqautic Weeds!, May 27, 2010.

  1. I Love Aqautic Weeds!

    I Love Aqautic Weeds! Prolific Poster

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    Ok, I just recieved my dry ferts and am very confused.

    I recieved,

    Plantex CSM+B
    P2SO4
    KNO3

    I believe from what I've read, that all three are dosed 3 times a week with a week ending 50% water change, yes?

    If so, can I premix them all in a 500ml Tropica Aquacare bottle and dose with this?

    How much of each (Plantex CSM+B, P2SO4, KNO3) do I add to said 500ml Aqaucare bottle to get a 20ml dose for a 46 gallon bowfront?

    Please help, I really need to make this doesing simple.

    I think I may need extra Iron, what brand do you guys suggest?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. nipat

    nipat Guru Class Expert

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    Should not do that, the KH2PO4 (Monopotassium Phosphate) may cause Fe-EDTA in CSM+B to precipitate.

    A 500 cc solution makes 25 doses of 20 cc.

    So from this info: http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2819-EI-light-for-those-less-techy-folks

    KNO3 1/2 tsp x 25
    KH2PO4 1/8 tsp x 25
    and
    CSM+B 1/8 tsp x 25
     
  3. I Love Aqautic Weeds!

    I Love Aqautic Weeds! Prolific Poster

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    What is KH2PO4? I have a bag labled P2SO4 -Mono Potassium Phosphate
     
  4. nipat

    nipat Guru Class Expert

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    The bag in the middle in your pic.
    If it's labeled P2SO4, then the supplier probably mistyped it.
     
  5. nipat

    nipat Guru Class Expert

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    P2SO4 is NOT Monopotassium Phosphate.

    If I were you, I would call the supplier to check if what I've got
    is KH2PO4 (Monopotassium Phosphate) or K2SO4 (Potassium Sulphate).
     
  6. I Love Aqautic Weeds!

    I Love Aqautic Weeds! Prolific Poster

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    Here's a picture,

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    For the love of God.

    Could someone at Aquarium Fertilizer ask Brian20 to supply them with some labels.:rolleyes:

    Hi all/I Love Aqautic Weeds!,

    Nipat's way of making premixed solutions is dependent on your needing full EI doses. If you would like to adjust the dose down, to lets say 8ppm, you can use this calculator http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm.

    For CSM+B 1 tablespoon to 250ml water is equivalent to: 20 ml = 1/4 teaspoon of dry Plantex or 1 tablespoon to 500cc water is equivalent to: 20 ml = 1/8 teaspoon of dry Plantex. About 2.5ml HCL acid can be added to prevent mold but if the solution is stored in your refrigerator it should be alright. With 20ml doses you should be going through it pretty fast anyway. Use distilled water when you make stock solutions.

    Recommended EI doses are for appropriately high light, CO2 rich, heavily planted tanks. Using more then you need wont cause significant problems - just wasteful. Using less is limiting growth. So, I wouldn't stray too far from what nipat said for your KH2PO4 and KNO3 premixes.

    Get yourself another 500ml Tropica Aquacare bottle - one for Plantex, the other for your KH2PO4 and KNO3 and store your premix solutions in these. Get two 250ml bottles to keep next to your tank for dosing.
     
    #7 Tug, May 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2010
  8. I Love Aqautic Weeds!

    I Love Aqautic Weeds! Prolific Poster

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    That's great!

    So I can assume this is right also,


    2 tablespoons into 500ml water and I would get a 20ml dose which is 1/4 teaspoon, yes?
     
  9. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Yes, but 1/4 teaspoon of dry Plantex is the dose for an aquarium of 60 – 80 Gallons. :confused:
    Your water column is closer to 40 gallons. If you are thinking of adding extra iron a better way is to get DTPA Fe and iron Gluconate - add to the stock solution.

     
  10. I Love Aqautic Weeds!

    I Love Aqautic Weeds! Prolific Poster

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    OK, so 10ml of this mix is ggod for my 46gal. Got it.

    So can I assume this is right for my 46 gal as well,

    500mL water + 5.5 Tbsp KNO3 = 33 doses at 15mL per dose (3 doses per week = 11 weeks of dosing)

    500mL water + 2 Tsp KH2PO4 = 33 doses at 15mL per dose (3 doses per week = 11 weeks of dosing)

    500mL water + 4 Tsp K2SO4 = 33 doses at 15mL per dose (3 doses per week = 11 weeks of dosing)

    500mL Water + 2 Tbsp CSM+B + .5 TBsp 13% Iron Chleate + .5 Tbsp Ferrous
     
  11. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    It's All Good

    Do you know how much phosphate is in the water you are using? Your local water authority should have this information listed along with some other information like GH, KH, Ca and Mg levels, etc. It might not make much of a difference, but good to know. The bag of Monopotassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) you have, AF has mislabeled for over a year now. It is not P2SO4, but email them and let them know your concerned.

    How many stock solutions (bottles) are you using?

    CSM+B and the added iron can go in one bottle.
    KH2PO4, I like to keep in it's own bottle. Add the KNO3 and K2SO4 to the KH2PO4 stock if you like.

    If this makes sense, it might be easier to work with.

    10mL dose every day
    10mL dose every day
    10mL dose 2-3 per week

    Or, use dry doses per EI. :p
     
    #11 Tug, May 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2010
  12. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    You can put all of the K+ based compounds in the same bottle, the CSM+B on its own, and I believe about 10ml of Excel in each to keep things stable. If you've got HCl, about 2ml of 100% HCl (well, the equivalent of) should do the job for cheaper. Add the HCl first.

    Oh, get a scale. For the thousands of dollars you'll probably invest into this hobby, a $20-$30 pocket scale saves time and money. It also answers neat questions like, "Is my test kit any good?"
     
  13. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Found it.

    Below are the maximum solubility's of the chemicals you are using.


    Until you have all the facts it might be better to dose independently for a better understanding of how each fertilizer benefits your tank. Once you're able to address those issues there is no reason to keep K+ based compounds in two separate stock solutions. In fact you can dose NPK daily as one formula and dose trace every other day. Which is what I meant to lead up to in the last (edited KH2PO4 dose) post. As long as you are not under dosing for non limiting amounts (including fish waist, food, your tap water, etc.) you have a lot of options. EI, is the jumping off point. Just don't try to fit to much salt in one bottle and keep phosphate away from your stock solutions containing Fe, Ca and any other nutrients that can form precipitates.

    Dan, when is, "Understanding and Determining the Concentrations of Chemicals" going to be available? ;)
     
    #13 Tug, May 29, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2010
  14. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Tug, at this rate it's going to be a while. I've decided to tackle the concept of equilibrium constant involving multiple compounds, which is something I'm still learning. I'm doing my best to make this one of those long-term projects that drags on for years, but right now it's clear that I need to know more than I do to write about the things that I want to. The fact that in the next paragraph I have to rely on past experimentation rather than understanding the chemistry behind it is a clear example of why I need to know more first.

    Those concentrations really aren't going to be a solubility issue. I've pushed double that concentration without the K2SO4, and my tanks are being dosed with that mix right now. With K2SO4, what you're making is almost identical to mixes I've done in the past that had no issues. Warming up the bottle(s) of DI by soaking them in warm water BEFORE opening them really helps.

    CSM+B has a solubility higher than we'd ever have need to dose; I've mixed up concentrations of 100+ppm for calibration before. Later I realized that the iron was already chelated, so all I had a test for is EDTA disassociation in deionized water using a still un-calibrated test kit. I think it dawned on me when even 100ppm wouldn't get a reaction... or possibly it didn't. I'll have to check my test kits to see if I tossed it.
     
    #14 Philosophos, May 29, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2010
  15. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Yea, after I found the list on chemical solubilities I didn't see an issue with the concentration. No harm in having "I love Aqautic Weeds!" check the numbers again. I personally like my stock solutions to be less concentrated. The faster I use up the bottle of CSM+B the less it is likely to get moldy w/out the added HCL.

    The Krib has an article on chemicals and dosing, I can almost understand.
    http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/dosing.html

    "I love Aqautic Weeds!", you hang in there. Good Luck.
    Take another look at post #10. I went back to clear up a few things, again.
    What do your Ca and Mg levels look like?
     
    #15 Tug, May 29, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2010
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