Dutch style 180L tank (56K warning)

marian4232

New Member
Sep 8, 2008
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Bucharest - Romania
Good evening,


After having problems with my plants caused by the UV lamp which was running non stop, i have finally got the desired results.
Tank - Juwel Rio 180L
Lighting - 170W T5 (9 hours per day)
Substrate - quartz gravel (does not contain any nutrients)
Fertilization - Trace Mix Plus and PPS PRO
Plants - a lot
Fish/inverts - Otocinclus, Corydoras, Neritina snail, Red chery shrimp, Crystal Red shrimp

Here are some pics:

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dutchy

Plant Guru Team
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Jul 6, 2009
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Hi,

Looks good. The plants getting more red is caused by low nitrates, less than 5 would cause something like that. On the other hand you're very close to a deficiency that might cause algae.

So how did you come to the conclusion that running the UV 24/7 created problems to your plants? What kind of problems did you have?

regards,
dutchy
 

Gerryd

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Sep 23, 2007
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Hi,

I DO like it..you have excellent plant growth and a nice mixture of stems...

Can you talk to me about your use of c02? I don't see it mentioned anywhere. If you do not dose c02 but do regular water changes, that may cause some coloration variety as the c02 level is changing.

Also, IMO you have a good amount of light for your size tank esp if not using c02.

I would be more concerned now that your growth is good and increasing if you are not dosing c02.

If you are dosing c02, please ignore my questions..

I second Dutchy's question...
 

dbazuin

Guru Class Expert
Dec 30, 2009
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The red is indeed amazing. Almost unreal.
I agree with Gerry it looks great.
 

marian4232

New Member
Sep 8, 2008
28
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1
Bucharest - Romania
dutchy;57254 said:
Hi,

Looks good. The plants getting more red is caused by low nitrates, less than 5 would cause something like that. On the other hand you're very close to a deficiency that might cause algae.

So how did you come to the conclusion that running the UV 24/7 created problems to your plants? What kind of problems did you have?

regards,
dutchy

I have calibrated my NO3 test today and i have 6-8 ppm in my tank at the moment.
The UV was stunting some of the plants like L. Aromatica (tips were not growing at all), Rotala Macrandra and Proserpinaca Palustris (the same problem with the tips).
All plants had washed colors. When i was testing for iron i had low levels or 0.

It took me a long time to realize this, i changed all bulbs, fertilization and added more CO2.
I have stopped the UV and in one week the plants started growing again and getting colors.


Gerryd;57259 said:
Hi,

I DO like it..you have excellent plant growth and a nice mixture of stems...

Can you talk to me about your use of c02? I don't see it mentioned anywhere. If you do not dose c02 but do regular water changes, that may cause some coloration variety as the c02 level is changing.

Also, IMO you have a good amount of light for your size tank esp if not using c02.

I would be more concerned now that your growth is good and increasing if you are not dosing c02.

If you are dosing c02, please ignore my questions..

I second Dutchy's question...

I forgot to mention about CO2.
I am using a complete pressurized system with pH controller.
 

dutchy

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marian4232;57298 said:
The UV was stunting some of the plants like L. Aromatica (tips were not growing at all), Rotala Macrandra and Proserpinaca Palustris (the same problem with the tips).
All plants had washed colors. When i was testing for iron i had low levels or 0.

It took me a long time to realize this, i changed all bulbs, fertilization and added more CO2.
I have stopped the UV and in one week the plants started growing again and getting colors.
.

My tank also uses a UV 24/7 but my Aromatica's are doing great. The Fe is always measurable.
aromatica.jpg

Don't you think one of the other four variables that you changed could be the cause? Like CO2? If it was the UV I should have the same problem.
 

marian4232

New Member
Sep 8, 2008
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Bucharest - Romania
I have changed all variables during two months and nothing worked.
I kept everything unchanged to try and stabilize the tank and still nothing.
After that, i have only stopped using the UV and everything was going great.

Depends on what source of iron you have.. Maybe mine is using a different chelator than yours.
You Aromatica is so compact.

What's you PO4, NO3 and iron level?

Now i see that your UV bulb is only 9W for such a big tank.
Mine was also 9W.

I am thinking that the process of destroying the nutrients was slower in your case.
My tank is only 45 gallons.
 
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dutchy

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NO3 = 30 to 40, PO4 = 2 to 4, Fe = 1, CO2 = @ 40 ppm. Just 1,5 WPG of T5, no reflectors. (half of what you're using ;) ).

regards,
dutchy
 

Tom Barr

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I've never found any relationship, nor have most folks over the last 15 or so years with UV and Fe levels.
When people add too little or low Fe levels, that, not the UV is the issue.

When you add non limiting levels of Fe, then there's never an issue.
You confound the issue when you limit nutrients.

Is it the limitation or is it UV? You cannot tell unless you test and add enough to Fe to ensure the plants are not limited. If you make 3-4 changes at once, say CO2 and Fe, then it's difficult to tell what is doing the effect response you see.

I dose PO4 at the rate of 5ppm 3x a week.
Fe about .5-.7 ppm 3x a week etc.
Additionally, I have ADA As as well, it's got no N left........but it's rich in everything else.
I dose about 15ppm of NO3 3x a week as well.

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redone120dec2009.jpg


Reds are fine.

Higher GH seems to help, really good CO2, sediment as a back up, good non limiting nutrients.
Some bulbs also reflect red color nicely, such as Giesemann and the GE color 9235K

You can temporarily peak the red stress coloration in some plants by reducing the N, this is from the loss of chl a(very rich in N) and then the red colors show up more, when the N is added back, the plant quickly makes more chl a and the green color mask the red again. If you stress the plant too much with N, it cannot recover and you get poor growth thereafter. In general, I do not recommend it, find another plant that's less color variable(there are plenty available in the hobby that are nice and red and stay that way).

I also use 1/2 the light at over 1 meter away from the plants.
In deeper tanks, your plants have longer time to grow and can get much larger, in smaller tanks, the trimming frequency is much higher.


Regards,
Tom Barr



Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Steven

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Aug 5, 2009
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Tom, if one of the thing that red plants don't always get red from bright light, why they are always get redder and redder when reaching / closer to light / surface? Thank you.
 

marian4232

New Member
Sep 8, 2008
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Bucharest - Romania
Happy new year

Happy new year too all of you.

I just wanted to let you know that you were right about the UV.
The reason why the plants had problems with the tips, was the lack of NO3.

Anyway, when i plug the UV the water becomes cloudy and i have noticed that i am not the only one to observe this.

My tank has become a plant warehouse at the moment.
I will change the style soon.

Here are the last shots from November:


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In the left side i made the mistake of not planting some shorter plants.


Have a great day.
 
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dutchy

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Looks good. I'd cut one of the background plants a little shorter to break the line of uniform height.

regards,
dutchy
 

Gerryd

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Sep 23, 2007
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Excellent growth!

I again agree with dutchy on some select trimming. Many stems like the bacopas look very nice when kept shorter...so you can use these as mid-level bunches.

I think your growth is outstanding, you now need to spend time trimming, shaping, and pruning..I am the world's worst scaper, but the tank needs some serious gardening. I think it looks great now but could be really awesome with some shaping and several trimmings.

If you decide to sell any of these plants, please advise ASAP, as they all look extremely healthy and I am in need of a few tall very colorful stems :).

I would love to see a simple slideshow (photobucket) of the tank growth since it's inception.

Nice job all around.
 

nipat

Guru Class Expert
May 23, 2009
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Apart from very healthy plants.
I wonder what light bulbs you are using.
It seems some bulbs are easier to do white balance,
and help get very good looking pictures.
 

marian4232

New Member
Sep 8, 2008
28
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1
Bucharest - Romania
Hello,


The setup is not available anymore so i cannot change anything that you have suggested me (unfortunately).
I have sold most of the excess plants (i have kept only 2-3 stems for each one).
Even if i wanted to send you any of my plants, i couldn't because there is a huge distance between us (i live in Romania) and the transport would have costed too much.

You can view some of the tank shots by accessing http://s798.photobucket.com/albums/yy267/marian4232/
The pictures are not exactly from the begining.

My light is composed of:

45W Juwel Nature – 4100K
45W Juwel Daylight – 9000K
39W Osram 865 – 6500K
39W Osram 830 – 3000K

I know it's alot of light but i love fast grow and the nutrient quantities that i need to use are not a problem sincer they are very cheap (only DIY ferts).
I am not using any nutrient rich substrate (just gravel).

Thank you for your appreciation.

Have a great day.
 

barbarossa4122

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Dec 29, 2009
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I did look again and again at this amazing tanks. I don't think I can achieve this while keeping goldfish. Lol, do goldfish have a long life ?