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Dutch scaping articles

Discussion in 'Aquascaping' started by Tom Barr, Feb 21, 2007.

  1. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    DutchMuch likes this.
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Marcos has done a wonderful job detailing the Dutch rules and this should give some people some design ideas and consideration:

    http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8713&start=0

    I would never like to see one style replace another, or to lose a style that is as nice as this. Hopefully more will be done to document and take more pictures of such styles and tenants. The UKAPS has done some to help, and a tour of various homes in the NE might be a wise thing to keep the hobby alive.

    Much like Iron Chef's worries about new non traditional cuisine diluting and replacing the older endemic Japanese cooking styles, and flavors, the same can be said for the lost of the Dutch Style.




    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  3. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    I enjoyed the UKAPS article quite a bit. It was dutch, not ADA style aquascaping that first drew me to the hobby. I still look over the AGA competitions frequently as they have less of a corporate bias to them, and still seem to celebrate elements of good dutch style aquascaping.

    Cardinalis is a plant that I admire when kept well, but I've had difficulties making it work in my aquariums. The plant seems to live, but never thrive. It stings all the more after out that L. cardinalis is available in seed packets at some stores. A good read through classic methods may turn this around for me.

    I really don't think dutch style aquariums will disappear for a long while. Iron Chef may have its concerns, but I still find myself patching together recipes from 10th-15th century cookbooks and popping in to observe the odd siege cooking contest. I have a feeling the planted aquarium will be no different; every style has its day, but remnants of the old ones live on for a good while.

    -Philosophos
     
  4. samh

    samh Guru Class Expert

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    How do they manage to bring out those colours with such high light and diy co2.... its amazing and frustrating at the same time :)
     
  5. Hallen

    Hallen Guru Class Expert

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    Well there's several reasons for that actually:
    - Not many thanks are really highlight, they might have a lot of bulbs but their PAR doesn't differ alot from most tanks that are considered medium light.
    - Redfield ratio and the eternal high No3/Po4 causes algae myth is still quite active over here, we all know the effects of No3 and Po4 limitation in terms of Co2 and colour.
    - 95% of the NBAT competing tanks don't use bio-Co2 anymore, a normal kit is commonly used.
    - There are strict rules for competition, alot of them focus around plant placement in terms of colour and shape if you 'obey' them colours will look more 'alive'. Also a pink bulb infront of the other helps brining out red colours.

    And believe me, ALOT of the prize winners struggle with algae and getting the tank the way they want it to be so it's just as frustrating for them haha :)
     
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Shhhh..........promote the myth, not the reality:)

    These types of displays are not easy, many also have a grow out aquarium in some other location, so they have nice plants available to add.

    ADA has much less issue, but the cost is high and type of lighting is different, but still fairly low.

    Hallen, if you or Dutchy or YME have more information that can be translated to English, I would very much like to find it!!
    I think ADA's contest has had a lot of influence and I am concerned some of the other styles might be lost in the fray.

    I prefer the method of judgment in person, you can not adequately judge an aquarium which is a 3D piece of art, by only looking at picture which is a 2D representation. It'd be like judging a sculptor based on a 2D painting only.

    Obviously you cannot have ADA or any contest ....trek the world looking at each entry, this is something that can be locally however! Video can also be done.
     
  7. samh

    samh Guru Class Expert

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    Hi Hallen,

    Thanks for that i understand now, a little less frustrated as well haha. I was seeing these colours and thinking they either have no nitrates or a heap of lights on there to get the colour, but with such simple co2 systems i was thinking i must be missing something. Plants in there were red that shouldn't be without extreme light

    I love the dutch style or any style that incorporates an array of plants of different textures all complementing each other.
    Sam
     
  8. Hallen

    Hallen Guru Class Expert

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    Haha Tom, never thought I'd hear you say that :)

    Indeed a backup tank with plenty of plants is used by quite a few of them, plants are exchanged between 'competitors' quite a bit here aswell. Yeah ADA has an easier job since they have a maintanance crew aswell and alot is based on the hardscape where as Dutch scapes usually don't have a hardscape and just evolve based on available plant species and the creator his or her taste.

    I fully agree, in this digital age photo's are being edited and alot can be achieved with a good camera and lighting. I've seen plenty of tanks irl that where dissapointing when you compared them to the pictures due to editing. This style of judging is quite intensive but no digital editing can be done, a tank will be judged 'as is'.

    If i'm not mistaken I do have some articles about Dutch scaping burried in my bookmarks, I'll try to dig them up and translate them. If you or any one else has any specific questions I could arrange an interview with one of the top competitors :) - Although I must say Marco Aukes summed it up really good already, great guy btw!

    What kind of articles would be interessting for you guys? History or all about scaping? or both of them?

    This site has some nice eyecandy aswell: http://www.paluzee.nl/album/thumbnails.php?album=14 The keen eye will recognize Dutch's tank in there aswell.
     
    #8 Hallen, Sep 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2011
  9. jerrybforl

    jerrybforl Lifetime Members
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    Hallen thanks for the link. Those tanks are amazing! I only hope that one day I could do something like that...
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Regarding ADA's contest, it would be like judging the Iron Chef without actually tasting the food.

    As Marco points out in the criteria:

    I do not think ADA judges well for aquarist, just picture of aquariums, nothing more.

    I think in terms of the criteria listed above more than I do a pretty front tank shot picture.

    I've had a few poo poo me for this since I am not an ADA purist or assuming that I cannot or wish to do such a nature style tank.

    My response?

    25Galhardwatertank.jpg

    I flipped them "the Wood".

    Offensive wood.......that is.
     
    DutchMuch likes this.
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Haha, I heard a criticism from an ADA fan boy recently about dutch aquariums.

    He said they looked like "fruit stands". "Each group of different fruit is stack front the back reminiscent of how fruit is displayed"
    "Collectoritus........."

    Well............I did a search and these are not even his words...........he stole them off the web from a reef discussion about their scaping issues. What a turkey.
    I sent the email back illuminating his copying of another's comments. Likely will not hear from him again.

    http://kb.marinedepot.com/article.aspx?id=10549
     
    DutchMuch likes this.
  12. AquaticJim

    AquaticJim Guru Class Expert

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    I've always admired the fruit displays at the Australian Royal Easter Shows :)



    3447971306_a148f5af5b_z.jpg
     
  13. jerrybforl

    jerrybforl Lifetime Members
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    Amano's style is nice and all, but for me it's a bit boring! I love of all the color and variety in a Dutch scape.
     
  14. AquaticJim

    AquaticJim Guru Class Expert

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    I'm in no way putting down Amano's style, but I agree Jerry.

    I can admire an Iwagumi style tank, but I always get the thought "Once you've seen one, you've seen them all" and they don't change much over the life of the scape.

    A Dutch/Jungle scape is a dynamic living entity that changes from day to day.
     
  15. Hallen

    Hallen Guru Class Expert

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    I personally love (old) Nature scapes which are inspired by nature and not directly copying it and a Iwagumi every now and then just a little above a Dutch scape, but that's personal favor. But I respect the Dutch scapes much more, not only for their way of judging but the fact that they can take just plants and arrange them without hardscape in a wall of colours that looks very attrective to the eye.

    Not much reason to do a Nature vs. Dutch tank anyhow since their completly different in their set-up, you can hardly compare the two. On side note, I remember Amano himself stating in an interview that I likes the Dutch tanks quite a bit.

    Funny how the fruitstand arguement comes up, it can be true for a beginner or experiment. But the expierenced competitor will try to avoid that by using different leave shapes, stems/rosettes, colours etc.

    @Tom, Love the wooden finger haha :)
     
  16. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    I also like the Amano style nature scapes more than Dutch scapes, because there is more variety and it looks more like a part of nature itself. (Not to be confused with DW's "El Natural".) Most Dutch scapes look alike, failing hardscape and using the almost mandatory plants like tiger lily's etc.

    Anyway, a good dutch scape is pleasing to the eye and very colourful.

    Still, some cheating is done even when NBAT judges come over to see the tank in person. Shortening and tying the leaves of tiger lily's together to get the right effect, even when it means the leaf will die in a week or so. The grow out tanks, as Tom mentioned earlier, to always have the right plant in stock.

    I also contribute in this and do a waterchange just before the judges arrive. This way I lower NO3, PO4, TDS and CO2 levels temporarily which will give me more points.

    I'm sure others do the same, and the disadvantage is that people take an example out of these publicized waterparameters as being the optimal, claiming that the number one tank had an NO3 that was zero. Then they ask me how I can explain that, not realizing it was just a one time measurement which is not representative.

    I think the Dutch scape will never die, estimating that around 75% of the Dutch aquarists has a Dutch scape. It's just that it isn't promoted that much as Amano's style.
     
  17. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    The true scaper can convey their message with the scape itself.

    hehe

    Offensive style, I guess I'm among the first to do that in an aquascape using a natural unaltered element.
    Being mean, crotchety and onerous, that suits me.

    And those are my "good" qualities.
     
  18. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    This is the main issue I think, nice pictures and well marketed style. ADA is a company, so was Dupla...........they aggressively marketed their products and styles worldwide.
    I would like to see a more history and up to the present time a good text on Dutch aquascaping with plants.

    I have no fear that ADA's nature style will be around a long time, they are marketing it aggressively, lots of a high grade pictures sell without any language needed also.

    Something to ponder.
     
  19. feh

    feh Guru Class Expert

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    Interesting article... I'm still thinking on how I want to scape my "reefeh" tank.
     
  20. Aquadream

    Aquadream Guru Class Expert

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    Some time ago I also use to make some Dutch style look a like stuff. Now I am aiming a lot at ADA style. However I find it disturbing that IAPLC is a lot about photography and much less about reality.
    I have seen live photos taken by someone in the gallery in Nigata from most of the current Amano scapes. Those scapes are published most of them in the last Book of ADA.
    Hell guys! Those aquariums look so painfully ordinary from the hobby pictures. Nothing in common with the catalogue images.
    So I feel compelled to enhance my photos or i do not stand a chance on IAPLC.
    I am not sure how much of aquascaping that is.
     
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