Dutch Me Baby

[guppyganker]

The current iteration of this tank is not going to last long. The wife and kids are going out of town in two weeks and I'm taking the chance to do a breakdown and adding mts under my black diamond.

The Equipment
-standard 75gallon tank
-1 16" sbreeflight freshwater on the left
-1 24" fluval fresh and plant 2.0 on the right
-30 gallon diy sump
-dual diy pvc overflows
-Jaebo dct12000 return pump running through a 2"X24" rex griggs to an 1 1/4" submerged spraybar the length of the backwall. Ran at 50%
-15lb co2 tank
-milwuakee ma957 regulator (despite all the hate I love it, needS a better needle valve)
-black diamond blasting grit substrate with osmocote 00 root tabs (currently)

The Dosing:
-tap water comes out at 25-40tds 1-2gh and 0kh how I got so lucky I have no idea
-I dose another 2gh with NILOCG gh booster at water change
-micros are plantex csmb dose to .25ppm fe EVERY morning
-macros dosed to EI target levels EVERY evening

The Pictures: (just recovering from a huge chop)

20170702_212220

• guppyganker
• Jul 5, 2017

7/4/17 chop

20170702_212211

• guppyganker
• Jul 5, 2017

7/4/17 chop

20170702_212208

• guppyganker
• Jul 5, 2017

7/4/17 chop

20170702_212205

• guppyganker
• Jul 5, 2017

7/4/17 chop

20170702_212201

• guppyganker
• Jul 5, 2017

7/4/17 chop

20170702_212151

• guppyganker
• Jul 5, 2017

7/4/17 chop

The issues:
-Once the plant mass gets up I can dose 15ppm daily of N and still bottom out in the same light cycle
-Ive been upping all of my ferts to keep EI ratios whenever I need to up my Nitrates
-Eventually at the end of a grow out everything starts to stunt badly my guess is A:im overdosing ferts or B:im running out of GH and should actually test other than at water change C:my tank never has any noticeable KH

 

[burr740]

Awesome, looking forward to seeing the progress.

My guess would be C if your test is accurate, pretty sure you need at least some KH, although somebody else can probably explain why better than me.

Followed closey by A because that's an awful lot of ferts. Talking about when you get up to 15 ppm NO3 every day and bring everything else up with it. But hey if it works, it works!

 

[Christophe]

To boost your KH, go to a brewing shop, either locally or online, and get some potassium bicarbonate. You can use baking soda, but that gets you sodium which brings problems of its own.

KHCO3 just gets you KH and K, both good things.

 

[guppyganker]

Awesome, looking forward to seeing the progress.

My guess would be C if your test is accurate, pretty sure you need at least some KH, although somebody else can probably explain why better than me.

Followed closey by A because that's an awful lot of ferts. Talking about when you get up to 15 ppm NO3 every day and bring everything else up with it. But hey if it works, it works!

And that's the thing it does work, to a point. I would say 2 weeks into max dosing things start to stunt. This round I am doing things a little different (at least until I mts the tank). I had been dosing 1dgh at water change and calling it good. I will dose 2dgh and continue to test to make sure im not running out at some point in the week. I will leave the macros at double EI (or EI levels everyday) since I never have an issue with nitrate build up. But I will not increase micros past .25ppm fe of csmb daily. Which is still double what lots of people dose if im correct.

 

[guppyganker]

To boost your KH, go to a brewing shop, either locally or online, and get some potassium bicarbonate. You can use baking soda, but that gets you sodium which brings problems of its own.

KHCO3 just gets you KH and K, both good things.

I had heard potassium bicarbonate is better to use, and have avoided baking soda because of the sodium. I never found a good source, ill have to check brew supply places. Or amazon I guess.

 

[rajkm]

Welcome guppyganker.
I know that tank from somewhere. I'll keep following closely.

For now I will recommend keep Micros at EI levels.. if plants have pale tops the just add iron, not CSMB. Add KNO3 if the tank bottoms out.
Another problem when your plant mass increases is increased demand on CO2. Do you have a ph pen/controller? Would be interesting to see CO2 fluctuations as plant mass increases.
May be trim one part of the tank at a time and adjust CO2 to that.

 

[guppyganker]

I had thought about being co2 limited as well. I honestly do not have a ph pen and should. My off gassed ph is blue and my midday ph is damn near clear. Ive called it good, and should be testing more accurately. Ive certainly never tested and compared while I had different plant mass.

 

[slipfinger]

Looking forward to see the progress.

What made you decide to add MTS under the BDBS?

 

[DutchMuch]

Hey I just met you, and this is crazy! so heres my #(911), DUTCH ME BABY!

 

[guppyganker]

Looking forward to see the progress.

What made you decide to add MTS under the BDBS?

Its not in there yet, honestly I go back and forth on the idea. My thoughts are some backup ferts In the substrate are a good thing. I have been using osmocote, but they seem a little spiky in output. It may just be me trying to fix a problem I don't have.

 

[guppyganker]

Oh the difference a couple days can make. Things are starting to look up.

The wallichi and maka red finally have visible tops again.

20170706_112124

• guppyganker
• Jul 6, 2017

7/6/17 RECOVERING

My pantanal is sprouting side shoots like crazy. The new growth doesn't look as nice as it has.

20170702_212151

• guppyganker
• Jul 5, 2017

7/4/17 chop

The limno green

20170706_110334

• guppyganker
• Jul 6, 2017

7/6/17 RECOVERING

This erio looks to be throwing a flower. I would like to think that's a good sign. It's probably it's death rattle.

20170706_110534

• guppyganker
• Jul 6, 2017

7/6/17 RECOVERING

20170706_110552

• guppyganker
• Jul 6, 2017

7/6/17 RECOVERING

20170706_110350

• guppyganker
• Jul 6, 2017
• 3

7/6/17 RECOVERING

The limno aromatica has gone pale today since this pics was taken. Currently dosing csmb to .25fe daily. I'll give it another day and see i f it works itself out.

20170702_212208

• guppyganker
• Jul 5, 2017

7/4/17 chop

I've started mineralizing some soil. I'll post pics later.

 

[LRJ]

Sweet fish. Is that an Acara or something?

 

[rajkm]

Let the Pantanal grow.. as it roots it gets faster and grows better. The one with the emersed leaf, you can throw once you have enough sides shoots.

How's your Nitrate levels since you reduced micros?

 

[guppyganker]

Sweet fish. Is that an Acara or something?

Yep an electric blue acara. He wiped out my neon tetras. One day everyone is fine, the next im loosing 10 a night.

Let the Pantanal grow.. as it roots it gets faster and grows better. The one with the emersed leaf, you can throw once you have enough sides shoots.

How's your Nitrate levels since you reduced micros?

That's my thoughts as well, ill leave it all alone till I dirt the tank week after next.

The nitrates... I did finally get my first pink reading on nitrates in months last night. But I don't usually test when the plant mass is down like it is right now. The first dose after the rescape I dosed 15ppm while the light where off and 7hours into my light cycle I had a yellow nitrate reading. Ive been dosing 10ppm a night since. I tested last night just before my next macro dose and got a faintly pink nitrate reading. Im calling it 5ppm. I would start testing every night and keeping track, but the dirts coming so its a moot point.

 

[guppyganker]

A correction to my above post. Im dosing 7.5ppm n not 10, and not that it matter that's much. Keeping with the .25fe from csmb daily for now.


Still chugging along. Looking better every day. I took the terribly stunted tops off the Kimberly to hopefully get a few more clean tops before its time to dirt. Replanted the stunted tops for giggles, im not trying to impress anyone atm.. This tank just needs some healthy growth.

20170709_091049

• guppyganker
• Jul 9, 2017

As Rajmk pointed out, "something is off, I don't know what".

20170709_091015

• guppyganker
• Jul 9, 2017

20170709_090948

• guppyganker
• Jul 9, 2017

20170709_090944

• guppyganker
• Jul 9, 2017

20170709_091158

• guppyganker
• Jul 9, 2017

20170709_091209

• guppyganker
• Jul 9, 2017

20170709_091219

• guppyganker
• Jul 9, 2017

Here are my thoughts. When I did my latest chop (just over a week ago now?) I pulled everything except the foreground and had them in buckets for a good two hours putting things back. I notice almost all of my old growth looks like hell. But I do have a ton of healthy new growth. This coupled with the fact that I was getting some nasty stunting right before I chopped may be the issue here. Im seriously debating when I dirt the tank if I should just take the couple inches of clean tops and do a grow out from "scratch"

Also Raj was this from you? I forget the ID, mac mini type 4? Its finally got nice tops, it shipped rough then got moved before it was healthy.

20170709_091126

• guppyganker
• Jul 9, 2017

I just have to tell myself not to touch it till my vacation...

 

[guppyganker]

20170709_091436

• guppyganker
• Jul 9, 2017

 

[rajkm]

Also Raj was this from you? I forget the ID, mac mini type 4? Its finally got nice tops, it shipped rough then got moved before it was healthy.

Yes Mac Mini Type 4.
It's showing good new growth.

I see L. senegalensis also seems to be recovering.. give it a week or so before changing conditions again.
I also think the extra CO2 is helping.

 

[guppyganker]

Yes Mac Mini Type 4.
It's showing good new growth.

I see L. senegalensis also seems to be recovering.. give it a week or so before changing conditions again.
I also think the extra CO2 is helping.

That co2 is cranked. Just need to get my ph pen in and ill have some numbers.

 

[guppyganker]

Well my play money is gone for this paypeck. Got a 29gallon at petco. It's a fun size for a super cranked Dutch scape.

I also have 10stems of pantanal coming, some lud palustris, hygro sunset and rotala indica. Then about 20 stems of aromatica mini.

Stoked!

 

[guppyganker]

The dosing seems to be working out well so far.

I grabbed a 29gallon from petco. I decided I would dirt this and cap it with black diamond before I make some huge mistake with the 75. Ive got a cheapy disk diffuser and some splitters comeng tomorrow so I can crank the co2.