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Dual Stage Regulators

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by Left C, Nov 17, 2009.

  1. nazrm

    nazrm Prolific Poster

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    Roger that. I think I found one that fits.

    Here's what I'm planning to put together (the manometer is probably not going to be there)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This forum has been a great help so far, alot of good discussions and info in old threads.
     
  2. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    Nice rig! Beautiful assembly! :)
     
  3. Aces75 Planted

    Aces75 Planted Junior Poster
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    expert advice request - Victor two stage Regulators on ebay

    First let me start by saying I have been lurking around this site and this thread specifically for a while, and the information I have learned is so vast and absolutely invaluable thank you to all that contribute, it’s a great resource for those getting into the hobby, like myself.

    On to my question, I have learned in this thread that building a regulator myself is the way I want to go, so step one is to find the regulator, and there are a couple two stage Victor’s on ebay that I have my eye on:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140457873280&ssPageName=ADME:X:BOCOR:US:1123

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110667477683&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

    The first already appears to have some type of metering valve on it, anyone have thoughts or experience with that, or is it a “throw away” part? Besides that any issues you see, the price is a little high, and it will be in a cabinet, so nobody will really see it except hobbyist friends that want a peak, and the pictures I will take for all of you!

    The second seems nice, not as flashy as the chrome version above, but I assume will be more than adequate? The output pressure gauge is 0-200, does that wide of a range become difficult to set the pressure adequately? With this one, the way I see it is I just need to get a 540-320 adapter, and a post body kit from Sumo and the bubbles start flowing.

    Any thoughts or suggestions on this would be appreciated.
     
  4. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    There are many people that helped put this thread together and it has been quite a bit of fun too.

    OK. Here are my thoughts.

    That is a very good Victor high purity regulator. The "B" series falls into the pressure ranges that we usually use. It has a 0 to 60 psi low pressure gauge. It is chrome plated and it has stainless steel diaphragms. The little valve is an on/off needle valve. Most people remove it. This regulator is very good except for the price. I wouldn't pay that much for one, but some people may. I have some HPT270C models that are in very good condition and I can include a stainless steel CGA-320 nut and nipple for it. PM me if interested.
    http://www.dmltrading.com.sg/documentation/HPT270-280.pdf

    This is a "D" model as you know. It will work for our use if you use a 20 psi or higher working pressure. This insure that the regulator is working in the range that it was designed for which is 5 to 125 PSIG. Note that 1 PSIG = 14.7 or approximately 15 psi. This is where the 20 psi comes from (5 psi + 15 psi). This puts it in its lower working range.

    I have used the "D" models without problems, but I prefer the "A", "B" and "C" models over the "D" models for our use. Actually you should select the delivery pressure range so that the required pressures are in the 25 to 90% range of the gas regulator's delivery pressure (a regulator's performance is at its best within this range).

    This is Victor's most common breakdown of delivery pressures:
    "A" models 2 to 15 PSIG with a 0 to 30 psi gauge
    "B" models 2 to 40 PSIG with a 0 to 60 psi gauge
    "C" models 4 to 80 PSIG with a 0 to 100 psi gauge
    "D" models 5 to 125 PSIG with a 0 to 200 psi gauge

    I would remove the stock CGA-540 nut and nipple and replace it with a CGA-320 nut and nipple. Some of us have gone to the Burkert solenoids with the Buna-N seals and the Ideal needle valves with the micrometer handle.

    This is my 2¢ worth.
     
  5. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140457873280&ssPageName=ADME:X:BOCOR:US:1123

    DOn't buy this one. The price is wayyyyy to much for what it is. He wants $200 for a used (albeit clean) regulator that would only cost a few more dollars new.
    That said, if you like this model/style, LeftC has some awesome equipment in great shape. I just recently bought one of his SGT500s, and am totally happy.

    The HPT272 that LeftC has will look exactly like the pic as far as style, etc. You'd be better buying from him.

    If you want new equipment and are willing to spend $200+, here are some options:
    Brand new regulators:
    VTS253B-320
    http://www.alexgs.com/product/victor-0781-3573.html
    VTS253A-320
    http://www.alexgs.com/product/victor-0781-3569.html
    HPT 270
    http://www.alexgs.com/product/victor-0784-0144.html

    Buy a brand new Victor VTS253A-1993: http://www.scientificvisions.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=52&osCsid=3lbrqre0j7338oe8a7u48fqu35

    I would just buy from Left C if he is willing to sell and be done with it. That way you know you'll be getting a quality piece at an excellent price.
     
    #1925 Matt F., Apr 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2011
  6. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    Here is the SGT that Left C sold me! I'm surrently in the process of making a master DIY thread that will tackle everything from wiring your own burkert, building your own post body, to installing an in-body stainless filter. I'll be doing everything from replacing gauges to installing a Victor factory model sticker on this reg.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Aces75 Planted

    Aces75 Planted Junior Poster
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    Very good information as usual by Left C and Matt F!

    I will be sure to post pics and describe my experience to help "pay it forward" to others as I move along.

    Ultimately, although it was sort of a fun experiement, I can't wait to ditch the 2 liter bottles! The area around my tank still has a sugary/yeasty/alcoholy smell from a little spill weeks ago!
     
  8. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    This is when you know you've got it bad!
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    LMAO!

    How many stickers do you want, Left C?

    LOL
     
  9. oldpunk

    oldpunk Guru Class Expert

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    This my 2-stage Airgas miniature regulator. Are these two ports on the ends relief ports? Do they need to be plugged or can I just leave them as is?

    [​IMG]

    Thanks/
     
  10. S&KGray

    S&KGray Guru Class Expert

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  11. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    Oldpunk,

    I don't think you have to plug the two holes in the caps. They go to the spring area, iirc and are not pressurized. They are a safety device.
    In fact my SGT160D (left most regulator in pic) and the HPT160D (right most regulator in pic) have these holes. They hold pressure fine:
    [​IMG]


    BTW, has anyone talked to Left C lately? haven't seen him online in a while...
     
  12. nazrm

    nazrm Prolific Poster

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    [​IMG]

    Not exactly clean but it should do. Unfortunately I can't use it yet. I thought I had all bases covered, but when I tried to hook it up yesterday I realized that US regulators have different threads than EU ones.. So I have to throw away the 580-to-320 adapter and just replace the 580 nut with one that's compatible with EU standards.

    Haven't had CO2 for 4 days now, and it's easter so I can't get the parts.. worst timing ever!
     
  13. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    There is a good deal on 8 Swagelok SS-SS1 low flow, low pressure 1/16" tubing fitting straight flow metering valves for $42.98 each shipped on ebay. They list for $143.81 plus shipping: http://swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?part=SS-SS1&item=
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Swagelok-1-16-Stainless-Steel-Metering-Valve-SS-SS1-New-/140536636963?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b8a2e623

    This would be a good inline metering valve. You can get various 1/16" x 1/4" tube fittings and other sizes as well: http://swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?show_results=Y&item=20b6dcb5-5a04-42f1-9df7-a5d3fd3672c3&RPR=100

    I did not see 1/16" tubing adapters x 1/8" male NPT fittings listed, but Swagelok may have them. They look like the image below. Note that you can use either stainless steel or brass with the stainless steel metering valve.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    Left C, I am purchasing that valve based upon your recommendation. I know I want to put together a CO2 system (for my current 20g high tank or for future potentially bigger tanks, and I am sure these materials will hold their value somewhat so why not??), and I keep seeing your name when it comes to purchasing parts.

    So I need one of those adapters to an NPT fitting in order to attach it to a regulator, correct?

    I am looking at a Matheson 8-350 regulator and an Airco "806-9541" on Ebay as well but haven't figured out yet what I want and what is a good deal in regulators.
     
  15. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    You will need a fitting at each end of the metering valve. There are several ways to go.

    You can have the 1/16" x 1/8" NPT adapter at each end. There are various tubing fittings for 1/16" x 1/8" tubing or even 1/16" x 4mm tubing and others like 1/4" and 6mm.

    I hope that it works well for you.
     
  16. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    OK.

    Would you recommend either of those regulators? as i understand it, they are not specifically for CO2 so I would need to find a CGA320 adapter as well.

    I've e-mailed Swagelok about the 1/16" adapters as they don't have any on their website and don't see it in their catalog either. Also checking McMaster, Grainger, Parker, etc (working on night shift in a power plant got plenty of catalogs to peruse at lunch)...
     
    #1936 Doc7, Apr 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2011
  17. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    i just purchased an Airco 806-9451 dual stage regulator. I read some reviews of the longevity expected out of their brand (now owned by, or called, Concoa, which has the same part # regulator), though couldn't find anything specifically on this one. $45 shipped, dual stage, 0-30 psi outlet and 0-3000 inlet.
     
  18. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    I see that you got the Airco 806-9451 (Concoa). I'm not familiar with this model. I've been looking at them. They have an interesting design.

    Swagelok doesn't have everything listed that they make in their new website's catalog. Much is missing that the older one had listed.



    If Swagelok has the part below or you can get them to make it, you will be better off. It will fit in the 1/16" tubing hole on one end and on the other end has a 1/8" male NPT.These are the part numbers:
    SS-1-TA-1-2 for the stainless steel part and B-1-TA-1-2 for the brass one.

    I just called Swagelok and they are going to check their stock and get back to me. Hopefully today. They are contacting their Cleveland office. They will give me the pricing for each one.
    [​IMG]









    Another way to go is to use their adapter that fits 1/16" tubing on one end and either 1/8" or 1/4" tubing on the other.
    [​IMG]

    Here are 1/16" x 1/4" stainless steel, nylon and brass tubing reducing unions: http://swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?show_results=Y&item=20b6dcb5-5a04-42f1-9df7-a5d3fd3672c3

    These are the 1/16" x 1/8" stainless steel and brass tubing reducing unions (SS-200-6-1 or B-200-6-1): http://swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?show_results=Y&item=20b6dcb5-5a04-42f1-9df7-a5d3fd3672c3

    ** Do note that you will need one part for each end that is the ID of the tubing used for these reducing unions. I mean that they will be different sizes. It is the tiny insert pictured below. I hope that you don't have to go to these.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    I did contact my Swagelok rep and he got back to me with these part numbers

    SS-1-TA-1-2, $18.65

    SS-1-TA-1-4, $50.70

    Swagelok rep says,

    Just an FYI Left C I am also considering just buying an Ideal. This stuff pretty much all holds re-sale value I would think.


    Lastly - I just got an email response to a question I had asked on the Airco regulator (though I did already purchase it)

    That doesn't sound right to me...

    Does that mean I need one of these?

    [​IMG]

    1/4" NPT X 1 3/4" Long Male Brass Regulator Nipple CGA 660
     
  20. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    Did you get a price on the B-1-TA-1-2? It should be cheaper.



    Don't know about re-sale, but they work pretty dern god.


    You usually remove the stock CGA fitting if it is not a CGA-320 and replace it with a CGA-320 nipple and nut.
     
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