This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Dual Stage Regulators

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by Left C, Nov 17, 2009.

  1. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,510
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    5454K65 (multi-barb) (brass) (1/8" ID tubing and 1/8" male NPT): Look up part number 5454K65. There isn't a direct link to it. http://www.mcmaster.com/#barbed-tube-fittings/=9sgs1z

    I like to use Tygon Lab tubing in 1/8" ID x 1/4" OD x 1/16" wall: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=38587&catid=864

    Clippard's tubing comes in this size as well.

    A good list would be great.

    Is this useful? http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6470-Dual-Stage-Regulators?p=44297#post44297
     
    #1661 Left C, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2010
  2. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,510
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    Many of us are using 1/8" ID x 1/4" OD tubing.

    Here are the part numbers that you need. You can do it in stainless steel, brass and nylon.

    Swagelok Tube Fitting, Male Connector, 1/4 in. Tube OD x 1/8 in. Male NPT
    [​IMG]
    $6.77 stainless steel SS-400-1-2: http://www.swagelok.com/search/product_detail.aspx?part=SS-400-1-2
    $2.67 brass B-400-1-2: http://www.swagelok.com/search/product_detail.aspx?part=B-400-1-2
    $2.67 nylon NY-400-1-2: http://www.swagelok.com/search/product_detail.aspx?part=NY-400-1-2


    Tubing Insert, 1/4 in. OD x 1/8 in. ID
    [​IMG]
    $2.16 stainless steel SS-405-2: http://www.swagelok.com/search/product_detail.aspx?part=SS-405-2
    $0.82 brass B-405-2: http://www.swagelok.com/search/product_detail.aspx?part=B-405-2
    $1.13 nylon NY-405-2: http://www.swagelok.com/search/product_detail.aspx?part=NY-405-2



     
    #1662 Left C, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2010
  3. Orple

    Orple Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    Dang, you're good, Left -- that's everything that I need, and then some! Thanks so much!
     
  4. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    Just to let you guys/gals know, I spoke with an engineer at Thermadyne (aka Victor) and it's okay to remove your nasty looking relief valves on your HPT 270, 500 and SGT 500 regulators.

    I'm actually removing my $90 relief check valve and replacing it with a $7 swagelok stainless plug. Aesthetically it looks much better than having a chunky piece of metal hanging from the bottom.

    This does not apply to the VTS models. The safety valve on the VTS models is designed to protect you.

    The swagelok part numbers for plugs are:
    SS-4-HP (what I am using $7)
    SS-4-P ($4)

    Just do a search with those part number on Swagelok's site to see pics.

    ALso a cautionary statement (this is the second time the engineer has mentioned it to me):

    Stainless steel body regulators have a tendancy to lose threads. If you remove gauges, CGA fittings, relief valve, or post body components on a stainless regulator, be VERY careful. If you happen to strip the threads or rip them out with whatever you are removing, your regulator becomes expensive junk. There is no way to fix a stainless regulator when the threads come out.

    Hope this helps.
     
    #1664 Matt F., Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2010
  5. barbarossa4122

    barbarossa4122 Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    975
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    Hi Matt,

    How about the brass regulators ?
     
  6. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    It's specific to stainless steel body regulators. Brass regulators or chrome plated brass are okay. You still don't want to overtighten or strip the threads, though. Just common sense.

    In the case of the stainless regulators, the threads can come out when removing parts. For instance, one gauge will unscrew okay and the other one will pull the threads right out with the gauge.

    That's a bit scary when you have a rare $1000 regulator like an SGT...lol
     
  7. Jowlz

    Jowlz Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    Damn I just typed out a long reply and it disappeared.

    Brass to brass connections are not prone to galling like stainless. Someone, most likely Matt, mentioned threadlocker in a thread to prevent galling. Good info. Galling is actually cold welding. Anything that is not stainless between the threads will help prevent it. Lubricants, threadlocker, silicone, it really doesn't matter. Obviously, for our use threadsealer or pipedope/tape make the most sense. I prefer thread sealer and use it with my welders etc.

    Bringing up Stainless to Stainless, and brass to brass leads to us to the next question. Stainless to Brass. This is fine. It will also prevent galling. The downside with mixing dissimilar metals, is the risk of Galvanic corrosion or some people call it dissimilar metal corrosion. Very simplified, harder metal attacks softer metal when they are in contact with each other. There is a corrosion chart for metal. The closer the metals are to eachother on the chart, the slower they interact. Brass and Stainless are pretty close. For our purposes its perfectly fine. Of course be very careful threading soft metal into hard metal and vice versa. I brought up dissimilar corrosion as many people aren't aware of it.

    Unrelated to aquarium info but a the best example I know of, of dissimilar corrostion chaos was with Ford. They build the first Triton Motors with Iron block, aluminum heads, steel exhaust and moly(high carbon) steel exhaust studs. All the metals coming together rotted the studs out in 2-3 years.

    Probably more info than you guys wanted but I think they are things to be aware of.
     
  8. barbarossa4122

    barbarossa4122 Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    975
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    Great info. Thanks guys.
     
  9. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    I think the Tritons came out in 97. They had earlier 4.6s in a few cars prior. We actually have an original 1997 F-150 (iron block, aluminum heads, steel prob 409 exhaust, and the original studs. The exhaust is all original. never heard about the stud issue.

    The 01 and 03 look exactly the same in construction. I hate the stock exhaust studs. I had an 01 F-150 with the 4.6 sohc Triton and an 03 mustang gt with the same configuration (obvioulsy not a triton).

    The Mustang I had a full exhaust (e.g. JBA headers, Magnaflow catted x-pipe, magnaflow cat-back (the prior cat back was borla stingers, but it was too loud).

    I still drive our all original 97 F-150 around town, and it has over 300,000 miles on it.

    I ended up splurging on a 2010 Fusion recently. ;)
    Getting back to regulators, Victor recommends teflon tape on all their stainless steel regulators. That's how they come from the factory.
    The brass and chrome plated brass high purity regulators either come with thread locker or some other sealant. If you remove any high pressure components, they advise using tape. For low pressure components non-hardening thread sealer is okay...I did this and didn''t have any leak problems with my vts253a-1993

    When it comes to the SGT 500's problems, the actual threads come out of the regulator's body and adhere to the male threads of the component you are removing. This leave no threads in the regulator's female 1/4" port. They are ripped out as you unscrew the component.
     
    #1669 Matt F., Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2010
  10. barbarossa4122

    barbarossa4122 Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    975
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    Hi,

    What do you guys think about this Concoa ? I tried to make the pic larger but, it comes out too blurry.
    [​IMG]
     
    #1670 barbarossa4122, Nov 20, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2010
  11. 2112

    2112 Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    Good info, thank you! Although I don't have a Victor or a check valve, it's good to know I don't need one.
     
  12. Laure

    Laure Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    Hi guys

    I am posting my question in this thread as it seems to be a popular thread and I am hoping to get some quick response. I need to understand something regarding the nylon seal on regulators. Where exactly is this seal meant to be sealing? Does it fit around the outside of the smaller tube that is inside the regulator connection, or does it fit onto the front of the small inner tube? I have a second hand Azoo regulator missing a nylon seal and I want to start using it. Locally, there are a number of seals of different sizes available. I tried one which fits over the inner tube but I still have leaking gas out the connector when I open the cylinder valve. Then I tried one with a smaller hole in the middle so that the inner tube does not push through the seal, but then the regulator can't crew onto the cylinder as there is not enough thread sticking out to actually start screwing it on.

    I hope you understand my descriptions...

    Regards
    Laure
     
  13. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,510
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    It's a flat washer that fits between the flat surface on the CO2 cylinder's valve outlet and the flat surface inside your nut on your regulator.

    [​IMG]

    Looking at the diagram, imagine screwing the regulator connector (nut) onto the valve outlet. The washer fits between the valve outlet and the wide, flat part of the regulator's nipple (stem). The nipple is on the right side of the diagram and protruding out of the regulator connector (nut) and being partially inside the nut.

    In the picture below, you can see the flat surface of the nipple that is wider than the nipple's stem. Also shown is the nut and the washer seal. Does this make sense?

    [​IMG]

    This is what a washer seal looks like. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=150318741574
     
  14. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    They can be any color. They can contain lead (so wash your hands):
    [​IMG]
    Here is where they go (you can see a seal in position inside the nut):
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    These nylon/plastic washers are good for one use. They make perma-seals in brass and plastic, too. Perma-seals can be used over and over.

    Your local Airgas will carry these washers, but they will most likely contain lead.

    Aquariumplants.com has a full selection of lead free washers and perma-seals.
     
    #1674 Matt F., Nov 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2010
  15. instantcrow

    instantcrow Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    perma seal or nylon washer

    If I use a perma seal, do I need to use one of these nylon seals?
    Tnx
     
  16. 2112

    2112 Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    That's what I was going to ask...
     
  17. S&KGray

    S&KGray Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    Either one, not both
     
  18. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    As stated, you can use either a nylon/plastic/kevlar washer OR a Perma-Seal.
    I use Perma-Seals, but have a ton of the nylon seals just in case the Perma-Seal fails.
    I've had one Perma-Seal fail.

    It's good to have a few non-Perma-Seal washers lying around.
     
  19. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
    link for Perma-Seals:
    http://www.aquariumplants.com/Perma_Seal_co2_cylinder_to_regulator_seal_p/perm1.htm

    link for nylon washers:
    http://www.aquariumplants.com/Replacement_Washer_Solenoid_to_Co2_Tank_p/pr1402.htm

    More for Perma-Seals: (make sure you email him prior to ordering...he's known for not being too responsive):
    http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/CO2.html#seal

    Other places you can get them:
    Beer and Keg stores (online and local).
    Welding supply stores (airgas, J&R welding): Andrew at J&R Welding is top notch. He's placed special orders for me over the past few months.

    Just do a google search.
     
    #1679 Matt F., Nov 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2010
  20. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    2:32 PM
Loading...

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice