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Dual Stage Regulators

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by Left C, Nov 17, 2009.

  1. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    That's a very nice build. Great job! That regulator has travelled a long way!
     
  2. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Great job! I have seen that basic configuration before :)

    Enjoy as that is a truly fine set of components you have there. They will require little care and last a long time.

    I have been very happy with both of my Victors even though the builds are identical!

    Left C.

    Am I a member BTW? :) I don't remember the awards ceremony....
     
  3. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    You sure are, Gerry. You are #67! A little fanfare! And, a bit more!!!
     
  4. maknwar

    maknwar Lifetime Members
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    I wanna join. I feel left out.
     
  5. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    That's exactly how I felt and why I wanted my membership :) Made me LOL
     
  6. jaidexl

    jaidexl Prolific Poster

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    Do I have to own a Victor to be in the club? How bout my Matheson, CONCOA and Airgas? :)
     
  7. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    Hi maknwar

    You aren't left out. Do you like Outlaws? You are #68!
     
  8. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    No. It is for all dual stage regulator owners and Victor owners. You are #69. Do you like Albatross?
     
  9. maknwar

    maknwar Lifetime Members
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    Kinda been boring in here lately. How about this to spice things up? Smaller than a pop can, dual stage regulator. Specs say it weighs 2 lbs, but I think its a little less than that.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    You midwesterners with you "pop." LOL It's called a soda! ;p
     
  11. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller Lifetime Charter Member
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    Or in Boston "twonic"

    Jim
     
  12. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    You guys have it all wrong. It is called a Coke-A-Cola.
     
  13. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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  14. maknwar

    maknwar Lifetime Members
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    lol, soda pop.
     
  15. S&KGray

    S&KGray Guru Class Expert

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    Nice mini matheson, where did you find it and which model is it?

    don't know if you seen the comparison i posted between a mini matheson and some other regs last year:

    http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6470-Dual-Stage-Regulators?p=51672#post51672

    I have a 3852 and a 3861, haven't seen any 3870 series yet.
     
    #2175 S&KGray, Jul 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2011
  16. maknwar

    maknwar Lifetime Members
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    its a 3852. I have a 3851 too.
     
  17. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    There is someone that visits this forum and other forums that is posting that the 6011 Burkert solenoids and some other manufacturers' models of solenoids that we use are not any good for our use because they get warm or moderately hot. This person is saying that the only good solenoid is the Clippard Mouse solenoid because it doesn't get warm. This statement is misleading. This person has no data to back up his claims against the Burkerts. I've never read of any failures. I spoke with the tech service people at Burkert when they were designing the Buna-N model for our use. I told them that we use low flow needle valves with CO2 and that the solenoids are either controlled electronically, with timers or some are even energized 24/7. The tech service people told me that these 6011 Burkert solenoids are designed for general purpose use in an industrial setting. They are made to stand up for years of hard use. They can be energized 24/7 for years at a time with low flow or even no flow at all through them. The Burkerts get warm, but it isn't a problem for them. Here are the specs. You can see that the Burkerts are designed for use over a broader range than the Clippard Mouse solenoids. I've also posted the specs for the Clippard Maximatic solenoids that many of us used for years.

    * The Clippard Mouse solenoids
    are designed for 0 to 105 psi
    and a temperature range from 30° to 180° F (or -1° to 82° C),
    0.67 watts
    - specs: http://clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=ET-3-12

    * The 6011 Burkert solenoids
    are designed for 0 to 300 psi
    and a temperature range from 14° to 212° F (or -10° to 100° C),
    4 watts
    - specs: http://us.burkert.com/products_data/datasheets/DS6011-Standard-EU-EN.pdf

    * The Clippard Maximatic MME-2PDS-D110 solenoids
    are designed for 0 to 180 psi
    and a temperature range from 32° to 140° F (or 0° to 60° C),
    6.5 watts
    - specs: http://clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=MME-2PDS-D110

    You can see that the specs show that the Clippard Mouse is rated for lower pressure use and also rated for a smaller range of temperatures that the Burkert 6011.

    The 6011 Burkert's use either 1/8" NPT ports or G1/8 ports. These are much stronger than the very small #10-32 posts that the Clippard Mouse solenoids come with. The Clippard Maximatics use either 1/8" or 1/4" NPT ports.

    I am not saying that the Clippard Mouse solenoids are bad. I've never used them. They may be very good for our use. But, saying that the Burkerts and some other brands are bad for our use is simply not true. They are designed to hold up very well.
     
    #2177 Left C, Jul 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2011
  18. Matt F.

    Matt F. Lifetime Charter Member
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    I think I know who this person is. Very irritating when false information is passed on to unknowing people as fact. The fact of the matter is, this person have a vested interest in Clippard Mouse SOlenoids. He is using and selling them on his rigs. Same thing with the Swagelok M needle valves he was selling a while ago. Not the "best" for our applications when you compare them to other low flow needle valves.

    There is absolutely NO correlation between a solenoid's temp and its durability/reliability/quality. This is a dead argument that keeps on resurfacing. It's beginning to tick me off. If you're worried about heat, contact the engineers who designed this solenoid. Burkert has a great customer service department where you can chat with their engineers!

    Burkert solenoids are about the highest quality units you can get for our price range and application. Clippard, the company, doesn't impress me at all. I have not tried their mouse solenoid, though. Prob won't. I like having a simple power cord, and the burkerts I have now will most likely continue to work for a decade or two without issue.

    Left C and I have no vested interest in any of the components we use/suggest. We suggest them because they are tried and true, and they work well (with little BS and few headaches).

    It's always a good idea to be critical when considering advice. ;)
     
    #2178 Matt F., Jul 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2011
  19. SQUEAK

    SQUEAK Junior Poster

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    Becoming quite interested in building up a little set of my own. Just bought a Y12-244D Airgas regulator off the 'Bay for $61 shipped (I sure hope that was a good price!). I will certainly admit that I am not the most mechanical guy out there. I understand I need a low flow valve after that (which makes sense, after bringing down to what - 30 psi at the output of regulator?), a bubble counter, and a solenoid wouldn't be a bad idea.

    Saw a Swagelok SS-SS2 for $60 + $5 shipping (I believe that is a low flow, as opposed to say an "M" series medium flow Swagelok) - is there any conflict, or reason that this would not be a decent choice? In a very general, hand-waving idea of pricing, for a brass setup would $65 be on the good or bad side of how much people are paying for their needle valves? Still on the lookout for an acceptable one.

    Solenoid, it seems you just really want it to be normally closed (no voltage applied) - other than that, just to have the right fittings. Burkert 6011 or so, understand that it should cost in the $20 range.

    Bubble counter seems straightforward. Check valve makes sense (one way valve), brass preferred. Are bubble counters/check valves commonly the same unit (and in brass, for a longer lifetime)?


    Oh, and hello! ;)
     
  20. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    Hi SQUEAK

    That's a good price. I believe that your regulator has a range of approximately 5 to 125 psi and it has a 0 to 200 psi low pressure gauge.

    A low flow needle valve gives us the control that we need after the regulators brings the working pressure down to what we want to run.

    If you don't mind mixing brass and chrome/stainless steel parts, the brass Ideal 52-1-12 or the micrometer handle V52-1-12 are very good choice. If you want stainless steel, they have the 54-1-12 and the V54-1-12 models. http://idealvalve.com/

    The SS-SS2 will work as well. It needs special adapters from Swagelok to work.

    I do not know of any $20 solenoids. freshwatersystems.com has brass and stainless 6011 Burkerts that you will need a cable plug for. They come in plain LED models and LED models with varistor. You will need an 18/3 power cord.

    AquariumPlants.com has a brass 6011 with Viton seals.

    I had good luck with the older Clippard Maximatic, but there are problems with the new ones now. Sometimes you can find good Parker solenoids on ebay. There were some bad ones too, but I believe that those bad ones from sherrodsurplus are gone now.

    The JBJ copy brass bubble counters sometimes have their check valves go bad. Many people use a check valve between this bubble counter and the needle valve.

    Running a check valve before and after the bubble counter is advised.

    You can DIY a bubble counter if you want to too.

    In this thread are many examples of various builds. Matt F. has some threads of his builds too. These will give you an idea.

    There are post body kits available from various sources too.

    Feel free to ask any questions.
     
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